The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-GRAMA ... 1167609883

When does frequent use cause an incorrect spelling to become an acceptable alternative spelling? Never? Eventually? Only in some dialect?

Because in eBay dialect, "gramophone" is very common.

ARGH - gram-a-phone! Damn you autocorrect!

That is a late "cheap sell off" version of the Victor 1 / New Victor / Baby Monarch that G & T marketed with the large banner transfer in the earliest incarnation. Later examples had an ordinary gold transfer when the MG horn was added. Incidentally that horn is unique to this diminutive model and is notable, even in poor quality photographs for the very sharp angles to the edge of the petals.

I've never seen this particular machine sold as a Zonophone before so it presumably must have been when they were knocking them out as door stops?

Proudfoot's older book (1980) says that this model came out in 1908 and was Zonophone's first gooseneck model. It was my first horn gramophone, though that had a black painted horn. A London dealer had another one for sale within the last couple of years. To begin with it had an 8inch platter, but later a 10" which looks too large for the base.

Like this one, mine came with a G&T Exhibition sound box. I have an idea the dealer's example had the Zono version of the Exhibition Junior. Overall the Champion has less visual appeal than its G&T predecessor.

There. My first posting.

I do like the look of this machine and am a little bit tempted by it. Curious that not only has no one bagged it using B-I-N, no best offers have been submitted either. Apart from the winding handle, it looks like a good original machine that hasn't been mucked about with.

I do like the look of this machine and am a little bit tempted by it

A lot of collectors would probably prefer a REAL Zonophone ie. pre-1903 or the G & T version of the same machine. It sort of falls through the net this one. I agree though, it is a fine original machine nevertheless and is well worth buying. I don't "need" it otherwise I would have already bought it and you would not be asking why no one has made an offer!

Go for it, Ian!

Like this one, mine came with a G&T Exhibition sound box

Apart from the winding handle, it looks like a good original machine that hasn't been mucked about with.

Of course, you do realise that the soundbox is also incorrect for this machine. It should only ever have the Zonophone version of the Exhibition Junior on it. If you think about it, otherwise it would be the same identical machine in every way to the G & T machine (apart from decals) which misses the whole point of the brand name "Zonophone" being used by G & T to offer a 'budget' range to those who couldn't afford the more expensive models.

It is common practice for dealers today to swap soundboxes and other parts when selling machines. In the absence of the rarer Zonophone soundbox being available, it is perhaps understandable that someone has put a G & T Exhibition on both these machines. It is closer to being correct than any other soundbox, perhaps, but still incorrect and not original. I suspect that like so many horn machines this example turned up with a late 20's/early 1930's Swiss soundbox with aluminium diaphragm attached to it where an early owner "upgraded" their Exhibition when electrical records came along. Then more recently a dealer has partly corrected the problem by adding the more common G & T Exhibition, when in fact a Zonophone example would be correct.

This also might explain a lack of enthusiasm for this machine shown so far.

Of course, you do realise that the soundbox is also incorrect for this machine. It should only ever have the Zonophone version of the Exhibition Junior on it.

But is that true?

I have seen three examples of a late (post-acquisition) travelling arm Zono, and each had a long throat G&T Concert soundbox. I've not seen one with a Zono branded soundbox.

The Zono Exhibitions I have seen have lettering resembling HMV Exhibitions, much less like the G&T period lettering. So did the Zono Exhibition, or Zono Exhibition Junior actually exist at the time the Champion came out?

The Champion was marketed with the Gramophone Co. proprietorship of the design acknowledged (see http://www.ebay.com/itm/Reprint-1907-ad ... 0885973941 interestingly dated 1907), so fitting a Gramophone Co soundbox isn't all that anomalous. I see that Christies sold a Champion in 1994, also fitted with a G&T Exhibition.

For those who may be reading this thread long after the eBay listing pics are gone, here are a couple of shots from the listing.

Clay

. I've not seen one with a Zono branded soundbox.

They don't all say "Zonophone", of course!

As for your second question, that is not easy to answer. Zonophone was chopped up and different regions appeared to get different machines with a variation of soundboxes attached to them, maybe whatever was available? It makes no sense to sell the G & T machine in all but name, as a Zonophone machine when the G & T machine was still in the catalogues. That effectively means that they were selling two identical machines but one with a different transfer for a lot less money?

I'm not convinced that the information that has been found to date is conclusively correct.

Found this 1907 ad for this model in an eBay listing.

Clay