The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all,

Picked up a Victor III last night. The case is in very nice condition, just needing a good clean. The motor will need a new spring, or springs, but otherwise looks OK on casual inspection.

The metal work is another story. The nickel is about 90% gone from nickeled parts and the paint is mostly gone on the tone arm support bracket.

Debating about whether to get the support arm refinished and/or other bits replated. Normally I wouldn't but this is pretty poor.

Also a question about the Y shaped bit on the top of the tone arm support.

(1) I am guessing that this means this had the type of elbow retained by this as opposed to one that just slips in. Yes?

(2) Is this bit complete? The ends of the it looks like something might possibly have been broken off, although that might not be the case as it is symmetrical.

Also, am I reading the tea leaves correctly that this is a late example? Serial number is 81657.

The turntable does not want to lift off. Is there a secret to getting a turntable off on a III?

Finally, do you have anybody you would recommend to refinish the support bracket if I decide to go that way?

Clay

Congratulations to your find.

1. yes, that would be the type elbow that has a ridge around which is held down by the Y-shaped bracket. Please see attached catalog picture.

2. to me this Y-shaped bracket appears to be home made. The form is kind of ok, but that would explain the rough edges. Also, this should be held down by a thumb screw. You can find both parts either original or replications.

I had the same turntable problem with my Victor II. I had to soak with penetrating oil for a week and still needed heat and quite a bit of convincing with a mallet to get it off.

Good luck!
Andreas

The open hole at the rear of the Y-shaped piece is supposed to have a pin that fits in a hole in the back bracket to keep it from rotating. Are you sure the first digit of your serial number is an 8? Could it possibly be a 3? I can find no reference to an 80XXX serial number in the VDB, but either a Type M or Type A could have a number in the 30XXX range. Note: the Type M was made earlier than the type A, but the serial numbers were restarted at 501 for the A.
I agree with Alang, that the Y-shaped retainer doesn't look correct, but it's hard to tell. Comparing it to the one on my Vic V, it doesn't look quite correct, but very close.
It is possible to remove the turntable and the shaft as a unit by removing the spring barrels, governor and governor drive gear and lifting the turntable with the shaft still attached out through the top of the motor frame. After that, you can properly support the turntable in order to drive out the shaft.

Jim

phonojim wrote:It is possible to remove the turntable and the shaft as a unit by removing the spring barrels, governor and governor drive gear and lifting the turntable with the shaft still attached out through the top of the motor frame. After that, you can properly support the turntable in order to drive out the shaft.

Agree. That's what I had to do a couple of years ago when I restored a backet-case Victor III.

Bracket restoration - contact Gregg Cline, the decal man.

http://phonodecal.com

Thanks Andreas, AZ and Jim. And the parts page is really neat to have!

You know it is 31657 when I examine it with a magnifying glass under strong light. There is a dark stain on the left side of the first digit that makes it look like the left side is closed like an 8 when you look at it without magnification. And that would make it a type A, which had the clamped elbow like this one had.

As for the turntable, I will likely just let poor George Vollema wrestle with it. The motor is going off to him for a rebuild soon, so I will just send the motor board complete. He likely is an old hand at getting them off.

Clay

A first bit of modest progress. The motor board with all associated bits is off to George V for putting right. A session with some Kotton Klenser has peeled off a few decades of grime, and yes there really is some oak grain under there.

The finish has now "matured" long past the original golden oak, which you can see a remnant of beneath where the tone arm support bracket mounts. However what remains is a not unpleasant chocolate brown hue.

And with the plate now clean it is clear that the first digit of the serial # is a 3.

The base may look a bit shinier than it really is due to the flash, by the way.

Will post more later as progress continues. I expect given my available time and budget this will wind on for a couple of months.

Clay

Am looking for your thoughts on two alternatives as restoration progresses. The metal work is in very poor condition. Which of these 2 options do you think is best:

1. Get good quality restoration of the original parts (back bracket done by Gregg Cline and period-looking plating done by Victrola Repair Service in Vermont, for example), or

2. Use good quality repro parts for display and enjoyment of the machine, maybe with the idea of eventually replacing them with a good original set later, and save the original parts just as they are for a future owner.

Clay

As a collector, would not originality be your ultimate goal? I guess it depends on how bad the original parts are at this point.

Retrograde wrote:As a collector, would not originality be your ultimate goal? I guess it depends on how bad the original parts are at this point.

Pretty bad. No plating left at all, basically just brass with verdigris, and a lot of the back bracket paint gone.

Clay

While most of us prefer the patina of originality, a point of deterioration is reached [a very subjective judgement] where anything done would be an improvement over leaving the machine in a deplorable state. I would not be too judgmental about anything that upgrades an eyesore to a better visual or operating condition. Yes, if I knew dependable people that could restore original parts by plating or painting for a reasonable cost, that is the route that I would prefer instead of using replica parts. While the end result might look the same either way, I would have satisfaction knowing that original parts still remain under the veneer of new cosmetics. But if I had to use replica parts instead, so be it. Here's another angle to ponder: besides yourself, who do you want to please with this preservation, a small group of collecting purists or a less judgmental public someplace in the future? Sometime down the line, that machine must be appreciated to survive.