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There is a fellow on the Edison Forum who goes by the name THE VICTROLA GUY who sells brown cylinders. He states that he can record most songs etc. on them and that they can be played with a C reproducer. I thought anything other than a B reproducer would ruin a brown wax cylinder. Please clear up this matter for me before I invest the $60.00 since I do not own a Model B. THANK YOU. Gerard

PM sent.

LONG ISLAND wrote:There is a fellow on the Edison Forum who goes by the name THE VICTROLA GUY who sells brown cylinders. He states that he can record most songs etc. on them and that they can be played with a C reproducer. I thought anything other than a B reproducer would ruin a brown wax cylinder. Please clear up this matter for me before I invest the $60.00 since I do not own a Model B. THANK YOU. Gerard

you can play a brown wax record with your model C reproducer but the added pressure from the tail weight will wear it quickly.
if you just want a reproducer to play your brown wax record, you can buy a model C reproducer with bad cosmetic cheap on Ebay and cut the tail weight so it will be like a model B.

check this link for more details about Edison reproducers.
http://www.edisonshop.com/reproducers/ducer.html

Hi Chuck,

Are you recording these also? Can we supply the music/speaking?

Thanks

Joe

So far Joe, no I am not doing that yet.

I make acoustic recordings only so far, and have
not gotten into attempting to take recorded material and dub it on to these records for
customers.

Others do though.

Chuck

Chuck, thank you for your p.m. You opened my eyes and I thank you for the information. When I return from the west coast this week I will be in touch with you. Look forward to seeing your website. Thanks again Chuck.

Le0 wrote: if you just want a reproducer to play your brown wax record, you can buy a model C reproducer with bad cosmetic cheap on Ebay and cut the tail weight so it will be like a model B.

With all respect, I wouldn't recommend doing this. The Model B has a ball stylus which exerts less pressure-per-inch than the Model C "doorknob" stylus. Cutting off the weight of a Model C reproducer will simply convert a serviceable component into spare parts. Rather than destroying an original artifact that has survived for over a century, please simply purchase a Model B - - They're not rare.

Best wishes,

George P.

All of the modern phonograph literature states not to use anything but floating-weight reproducers or Automatic / Model B reproducers on Brown Wax for the reasons stated by George Paul above, however I've never seen any notes on the fact that Edison Recorders, both 2 and 4-minute, were sold concurrently with Model C and the assortment of 4-minute reproducers. To me this indicates that Brown Wax recordings- at least home recordings- were intended to be used with the updated "doorknob" stylus reproducers. Whether or not they were to be used with commercial Brown Wax is another story given that the major companies had ceased production when the Model C and 4-minute reproducers were out. Has anybody heard of any post-Automatic period literature suggesting the use of only the Automatic (or floating weight) for Brown Wax?

Personally, I only play my own homemade Brown Wax recordings with a Model C because I often re-record on cylinders so I am not terribly worried about damaging the grooves. The couple original Brown Wax cylinders I have or any I find are played with either a floating weight or an Automatic reproducer.

phonogfp wrote:

Le0 wrote: if you just want a reproducer to play your brown wax record, you can buy a model C reproducer with bad cosmetic cheap on Ebay and cut the tail weight so it will be like a model B.

With all respect, I wouldn't recommend doing this. The Model B has a ball stylus which exerts less pressure-per-inch than the Model C "doorknob" stylus. Cutting off the weight of a Model C reproducer will simply convert a serviceable component into spare parts. Rather than destroying an original artifact that has survived for over a century, please simply purchase a Model B - - They're not rare.

Best wishes,

George P.

I wasn't aware about the ball stylus, I thought it would do the same... I'm always glad to learn new stuff.
BTW, I have a nasty looking tail weight someone wire wheeled and I wouldn't be ashamed to chop it.

It is true that home recordings certainly were made in the era of the C reproducer, and I also have never seen post 1901 literature that tells users of Edison Phonographs to play there home recordings with an automatic or model B, it just says replace the recorder with the reproducer. I know people who have purchased my blanks and recordings that have played them with a model O and M, and since 2000, I have yet to have a complaint thus far from anyone who has worn out one of the recordings I made them on the brown wax blanks I make. The aluminum content is interesting. I have some tables that Jonas Ayslworth made when he analyzed cylinders and did a report , for those who do not know, he developed most of the Edison formulas used for brown wax, master wax, and all Gold Moulded and Amberol wax.
The majority of "wax" (except for 1888 perfected wax) cylinders was an aluminum soap. Aluminum is the hardener in wax cylinders, both brown and moulded.
Off brand cylinders may have been composed of a lead stearate formula. Edison supplied all blanks up until 1895.
This is part of a table composed by Ayslworth.

Columbia moulded Brown and black wax (Columbia) .47%
Aylsworth flat ended black wax moulded.......... .25%
Columbia B formula............................ .36%
Another early Edison moulded.................. .24%
Edison Useful Data Brown Wax.................... .63%
Silver lake Edison 1889-1895................. .49%
Edison comp 1046...................... .47%
Edison Ediphone....................... .33%

Columbia did not have additives in the cylinders like Edison did to make them harder, Columbia used a basic aluminum stearate and (Paraffin, Ceresine, or cocinic acid were used by Columbia at different times for "tempering.") formula for there brown wax and moulded records, do note the analisis shows a high aluminum content for Columbia records. Note that Edison's moulded records have a much lower aluminum content than the brown wax does , pre 1904 Edison records had carnauba added to make them hard, the additives necessitates the need to reduce the amount of aluminum in the compound, otherwise the record is too brittle. Also note that the octadecanoic acid that was used for making cylinders at the time was double pressed, and today we have triple pressed, the principal type at that time was beef tallow based, while today we have triple and double, vegetable or tallow based. Post 1904 Edison Gold Moulded records the AL was about ¼% however carnauba, pine tar, and zinc and copper salts were added to make them more durable in actuality, the wax in my experiments with GM is actually more tar like, or gummy when melted and moulded. I do not know the formula for Amberol cyinders. What I can gather from this data is that the brown wax, actually has a higher aluminum content than the moulded wax. The moulded wax however seems to be more durable because of the additives. You look at the table and decide. In looking this over, I would say all things even out, and they could be considred the same hardness. I thin the temperature one plays wax cylinders back is important, if you play them at temperatures under 73, they should not wear much, including brown wax. I would not play original brown wax recordings much with a C though just because they are certainly not very replaceable, yes you could find the same recording on the myriad of youtube and website sights, but not any 10 brown wax recordings are going to be the same performance.