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Excuse me if this is a double post- my first try doesn't seem to show up.

This Viva Tonal is somewhat near me and not too badly priced:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... 3DWatching

Supposedly they're not to be compared with Orthophonics, but would this be worth picking up? I don't have an Orthophonic and I;d like something appropriate for electric recordings. Biggest problem- it's a space hog and I have a VV 405 waiting for space as it is.

You very seldom see a Viva-tonal, and this certainly could be worth picking up as long as there is no major damage to the veneer and the parts are all there and in good condition. There looks like there is some veneer damage on the top which might present a problem. I would ask the seller what condition the cabinet is in and whether there are deep pits and scratches in the cabinet and how extensive the veneer damage might be. The Cabinet is dirty, but this may clean up quite nicely with some antique furniture masque.

I've got something of a plan. Console victrolas don't sell very well on Ebay, mostly because they are tough to ship- and I think this one has been up for sale before. I'm going to wait this one out and if it doesn't sell I'll make an offer of $150.00 and go up to $200.00 of course this will depend on getting someone to help me move it.

The 700-series Viva Tonal phonographs are okay, and they do a good job playing electric recordings, but they do not have the punch of an Orthophonic Victrola. Based on what I've listened to, even the small Consolette (VV 4-3) has more oomph. Seems to me you could get a nice similar-size VV-4-40 in about the same or better condition for that price.

Still, as Solophoneman noted, Viva Tonal models are relative scarce, so the starting bid price may not be that far off.

To get an idea of what the horn looks like, and overall sound quality, you might want to check out THIS POST STRING from "Phonographs.org", which covered a model nearly identical to that one.

In the above mentioned string, there are jumps to a couple of Youtube videos of the machine playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmLU5KQp-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb5JNAVSlts

Ortho_Fan wrote:The 700-series Viva Tonal phonographs are okay, and they do a good job playing electric recordings, but they do not have the punch of an Orthophonic Victrola. Based on what I've listened to, even the small Consolette (VV 4-3) has more oomph. Seems to me you could get a nice similar-size VV-4-40 in about the same or better condition for that price.

Still, as Solophoneman noted, Viva Tonal models are relative scarce, so the starting bid price may not be that far off.

To get an idea of what the horn looks like, and overall sound quality, you might want to check out THIS POST STRING from "Phonographs.org", which covered a model nearly identical to that one.

In the above mentioned string, there are jumps to a couple of Youtube videos of the machine playing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_dmLU5KQp-o

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb5JNAVSlts

That machine sounds particularly good in the second clip, playing a record of the proper era.

I'm aware that a Consolette would be a good choice (probably a better one) but it seems everyone has one and it's nice to be a bit different- that's one reason I have a Cheney. Of course Orthophonics have soundbox problems- you've got to find one in working shape and then they're tricky to rebuild. It seems that the Columbia soundboxes can usually play well with a proper regasketing- if the diaphraghm is OK.

I like Viva-Tonal machines. I regret selling a nice 800 several years ago, but still have a 711 - how close are you to the seller? If you have the dough, and can pick it up without much trouble, I'd go for it!

My 711:

http://www.misterphonograph.com/Columbiadisc.htm

Matt

I have had the 810 and the 700 model similar to that one above. I only parted withe the 810 due to the size of the machine and the fact that it had a very directional sound.. Only sounded really good on one side of the room in front of the horn due to the use of the flat side of the machine for one side of sound reflection. I loved the ease with which the reproducer could be repaired. Unlike the Orthophonic which is very tricky and I have never attempted it. The sound was perhaps a bit better on the Columbia in my mind, but the size and fact that the Credenza was not as directional with the sound caused me to finally part with it. I wish too I had kept it, it was the only one like it I have ever run into. In fact the drop down door model such as the 710 was also the only one I have seen. So yes they are very rare.. Recently an auction in a small town near me had a very small upright vivatonal machine and I was very disappointed when the auctioneer said it wasn't for sale. I believe some books on the subject of those early electric reproduction acoustic playback machines felt that Columbia had an edge on the Orthophonic in sound. They did in their recordings in my opinion so the machines may have as well. I think if the reproducer is rebuilt and functioning properly they are great.

I had always wondered about the origins of the Viva Tonal phonographs. Victor and Columbia shared the rights to use the recording system designed by Maxfield and Harrison, but only Victor (and later it's sister company, the Gramophone Co.) had the right to produce the Orthophonic Victrola.

Columbia, and other manufacturers, had to come up with their own designs for the playback mechanism.

A few years ago, while scouring patent data, I stumbled across the first reference I found linking the design of Columbia's playback system -- horn, sound box, etc. -- to FRANK C HINCKLEY

Since then, I haven't been able to find any detailed information about him, other than the fact that he had been working for Columbia since at least the teens--judging by the patent data.

Matt Brown wrote:I like Viva-Tonal machines. I regret selling a nice 800 several years ago, but still have a 711 - how close are you to the seller? If you have the dough, and can pick it up without much trouble, I'd go for it!

My 711:

http://www.misterphonograph.com/Columbiadisc.htm

Matt

It's a bit under 3 hours from me, Worcester is just off the Mass turnpike so it would be a reasonably easy drive- and perhaps I could link up with some other board members in the area (hint, hint)

There was a long article about the restoration of Viva Tonals in the Michigan Antique Phono Society newsletter last year. The Australian chap who does that interesting column wrote at great length about the necessity of sealing all the horn joints and the great improvement in the sounds resulting therefrom. In all my years of collecting I have never seen an acoustic Viva Tonal machine in Canada. I've seen one of the Columbia -Kolster electric machines but that is all. I take it the acoustic machines had tiny sales up here.

Jim