The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I got a call today from a lady who had a Sonora phonograph for sale. She said she got my number from another collector. She said she had a Sonora with the bombe cabinet in oak. I told her that if this weekend's CAPS show was any gauge of the market that floor models have taken a bit of a dive in value in the last few years. Then I asked her what she wanted for it. She said $2800.00! I told her that the price was not realistic in today's marketplace. I asked her where did she get that price, and she replied that she saw one on Ebay selling for that. I told her that was probably an asking price. She seemed very unconvinced that it would be worth less than that. What do you think???

I deal with people like that all the time and politely tell them "good luck with your endeavor"! Now, if this is the really high end one with the record counter and all of the other bells and whistles, she might have something a little more special. If it's a "Baby Grand" as I suspect it is, I turned one down for $700 a few years ago when the market was a little "hotter" that was a real beauty. Even then, that was a little high for an asking price and the seller wasn't at all interested in taking lower offer, I think I countered $500 which at the time would have been about right. I'm pretty certain he never did sell the machine, either.

Sean

marcapra wrote:I told her that the price was not realistic in today's marketplace.

I agree. And I agree with Sean's comments as well. Although I will concede that an oak bombe Sonora (any model) is much more difficult to find and therefore more valuable than one in mahogany, all other attributes being the same. Obviously, if it is a Sonora Supreme it would be a worthy machine but it is doubtful the one in question is that model but who knows. I have a mahogany bombe Sonora Grand with most of the grille bashed out sitting in storage. It plays great and looks decent but I'd be lucky to get $300 for it as is if I wanted to sell it.

Maybe it's the same model as this one and it's the deal of the century!!

but does it have the original key????

http://ontario.kijiji.ca/c-buy-and-sell ... Z510115081

Such prices are, alas, driven by emotion and not reason--and in this case perhaps by a seller who is clueless about how many wildly over-priced items that will never sell at the asking price are seen on eBay. As Sean suggests, the best thing is to put on a pleasant smile, wish them well, and back away slowly.

Clay

I think that the mistake being made here is the assumption that the target buyers for decorative antique phonographs (and the bombe Sonoras certainly fit that profile) are limited to serious collectors. There are many people out there, with elegant homes, who collectively refer to all wind-ups as "Victrolas". But these same buyers have taste, a sense of style and nostalgia, and the financial means to decorate their homes to satisfy their egos. Nor do they have the time and/or interest to scout out the antique phonograph shows; to them spending the better part of a week attending Union or CAPS would not even cross their minds.
And these same non-collectors have little interest in an "original" piece. I have been in mansions that were decorated with millions of dollars in art, furniture, etc. and these owners would rather throw an "original" machine in the trash than spoil their decor. It's a big world, with lots of monied people, and just a matter of pleasing their varied interests. That being said, the Sonora uprights such as the Supreme/Invincible/Grand/Elite etc. can command very strong prices when fully restored and showcased.

I think the Sonoras with bombe sides have good value in comparison to ordinary straight sided uprights. The top of the line Sonora Supreme has terrific value ($6,000 to $9,000 mahogany in excellent original condition - my estimate only) but there is a huge drop off to the very next model. If a Supreme is worth $6,000, the next model down, the Invincible is probably worth $1,200 in similar condition and each successive bombe model is worth less. It's not unlike the current values of a Victrola XVIII and the next model down, the Victrola XVI. (The VV-XVII replaced the XVIII in the Victor lineup.) If a XVIII is worth $3,000, a XVI is worth about $500 in similar condition and finish.

Jerry Blais

I guess instead of telling her that her price was unrealistic, I should have asked her what model Sonora she had. I didn't realize that Sonoras had any collector interest. Well, maybe my Brunswick Cortez has some collector interest.

Many times the model is stamped on the underside of the parts drawer at the bottom of the record storage area. Have her check that out and report back. Thanks, Jerry

The lady said she thinks her Sonora is a Grand model. The dimensions are 51" high x 21" wide at lid-24" wide at widest ornate carving x 21" deep at lid-24" deep at widest ornate carving. I don't know where the Grand is in the Sonora hierarchy, but I think it's below the Supreme and Elite. I still have not seen a pic of it.