The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have a couple of the OKEH Indian head labels that play vertically. Are these really rare? I would like to have maybe a dozen or so of these and better titles. How many were made? rarity etc.?

Also, do you play these with a sapphire ball or just the steel needle?

I don't think they're very rare, perhaps moderately rare is more like it. They sound quite nice, when played back electrically on modern kit, very good acoustical recordings. I've never heard one on a vintage machine.

They're needle records. To be played with the right reproducer, of course.

Victrolacollector wrote:Are these really rare?

I have personally found many more of the blue "Indian Head" Okeh label than I have of the red "Indian Head" Okeh label. I would consider the red "Indian Head" Okeh label records as fairly scarce. The blue ones I would not consider common but much more common than the red.

Wolfe wrote:I don't think they're very rare, perhaps moderately rare is more like it. They sound quite nice, when played back electrically on modern kit, very good acoustical recordings. I've never heard one on a vintage machine.

They're needle records. To be played with the right reproducer, of course.

The earliest okeh records were vertically cut. They should only be played with a sapphire ball needle. They were just like Pathé records . The later records were laterally cut and can be played with steel needles. They were specifically marked as lateral records.

VintageTechnologies wrote:

Wolfe wrote:I don't think they're very rare, perhaps moderately rare is more like it. They sound quite nice, when played back electrically on modern kit, very good acoustical recordings. I've never heard one on a vintage machine.

They're needle records. To be played with the right reproducer, of course.

The earliest okeh records were vertically cut. They should only be played with a sapphire ball needle. They were just like Pathé records . The later records were laterally cut and can be played with steel needles. They were specifically marked as lateral records.

The situation with vertical discs can be confusing- some brands (Okeh, Rex, Pathé) played with sapphire balls, but others (Gennett, Aeolian Vocallion, Operaphone) used steel needles.

estott wrote:

VintageTechnologies wrote:

Wolfe wrote:I don't think they're very rare, perhaps moderately rare is more like it. They sound quite nice, when played back electrically on modern kit, very good acoustical recordings. I've never heard one on a vintage machine.

They're needle records. To be played with the right reproducer, of course.

The earliest okeh records were vertically cut. They should only be played with a sapphire ball needle. They were just like Pathé records . The later records were laterally cut and can be played with steel needles. They were specifically marked as lateral records.

The situation with vertical discs can be confusing- some brands (Okeh, Rex, Pathé) played with sapphire balls, but others (Gennett, Aeolian Vocallion, Operaphone) used steel needles.

Yes, but the relative fineness of the groove pitch is a good indicator. Coarse grooves like Pathé should be played with a sapphire. Fine grooves similar in pitch to (but excepting) Edison disks should be played with a needle.

VintageTechnologies wrote: Fine grooves similar in pitch to (but excepting) Edison disks should be played with a needle.

That's right. Companies like Okeh & Gennett & Brunswick, et. al. played using needles on the vertical discs.

You can tell by looking at the grooves. And if that wasn't enough, Okeh would have indicated sapphire ball playback on the labels, if that was the case.

Wolfe wrote:

VintageTechnologies wrote: Fine grooves similar in pitch to (but excepting) Edison disks should be played with a needle.

That's right. Companies like Okeh & Gennett & Brunswick, et. al. played using needles on the vertical discs.

You can tell by looking at the grooves. And if that wasn't enough, Okeh would have indicated sapphire ball playback on the labels, if that was the case.

I did a test last night- for what it's worth my vertical Okeh was playable with a steel needle but had better sound with a sapphire ball. My vertical Gennett wouldn't play with a sapphire.