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I tried playing some Pathé' discs on my Magnola. The needle are seems to repeat some grooves, I put some finger pressure on the reproducer and it seems fine. I am not sure what the problem is. On the Pathé' the arm slides.

If the arm is repeating grooves it must not be free enough to easily move perhaps. Some machines have issues with the pivot point at the rear seizing up due to swollen pot metal, or it might just need some oil or grease. Some Pathé records have groove issues that cause the arm to slide across the grooves. Some records play well part way then scoot across the rest or part of a record. Personally I have never figured out what the cause of that is. I suspect the grooves of that record have been compromised in some way and no longer will hold the ball in place. I have had sets of them where many did it and other groups where none did it.. Recently I got several records and one of them does it on one side which is also common from my experience. Does your machine have a way to increase the weight when playing the Pathé records? My Brunswick has a sliding weight which is suggested be brought forward so that it puts more pressure on the grooves.. But if the record is bad that will not stop the problem.. I also have some where I have to put the arm on very carefully and sort of hold it till the music starts and the stylus tracks the grooves, then I can let go. Other times the same record will slide the arm if you don't really carefully get it started. I have also tried turing the stylus a bit in the shank and a few times it would then play a record where it wanted to slide. If I end up with a record where nothing will work I toss it.

Larry

The grooves on Pathé discs are shallow, which makes them particularly prone to skating. Centre start discs are the worst affected as centrifugal force tries to fling the reproducer outwards, and the smaller the diameter of the disc, the more difficult they can be to play.

I have never had any problems when using a Pathé machine designed for centre start discs, but when using a Pathé Universal reproducer on a conventional machine I find that the weight of the tonearm is insufficient for reliable tracking. As has already been suggested, a tonearm incorporating a weight adjuster will probably help.

A picture of what you are playing and playing it on helps more than a thousand words !

Because of the shallow groves, the turntable must be level to play Pathé vertical cuts. If it isn't, the described skating will result.

Clay

epigramophone wrote:The grooves on Pathé discs are shallow, which makes them particularly prone to skating. Centre start discs are the worst affected as centrifugal force tries to fling the reproducer outwards, and the smaller the diameter of the disc, the more difficult they can be to play.

I have never had any problems when using a Pathé machine designed for centre start discs, but when using a Pathé Universal reproducer on a conventional machine I find that the weight of the tonearm is insufficient for reliable tracking. As has already been suggested, a tonearm incorporating a weight adjuster will probably help.

I second this observation, I always had trouble playing Pathé discs, especially the smaller 8" center-start discs on my Actuelle and with various adapters. Once I got my Pathéphone, I played through every single Pathé disc I had with no problems at all. The combined weight of the tonearm and reproducer on an early Pathéphone is quite significant. Two things that would help would be making sure the machine is level and perhaps adding weight to the reproducer with strips of lead or something.

Victrolacollector wrote:I tried playing some Pathé' discs on my Magnola. The needle are seems to repeat some grooves, I put some finger pressure on the reproducer and it seems fine. I am not sure what the problem is. On the Pathé' the arm slides.

I have hundreds of Pathé records ranging from 8" - 14" and a variety of machines to play vertical records, so I have witnessed and pondered the many factors that could cause the records to skip. A number of causes have been given, and I'll add a few more.

The large diameter grooves are too shallow and the ball needle does not lock into the groove nearly as well as a 78 or even an Edison. Groove depth seems to vary among records, and small diameter center-start records are the most problematic, due to shallow grooves and centrifugal force. Volume and record condition affect tracking as well. So does stylus condition. So do length of the tonearm and the position from which the tonearm pivots.

You have no control over some factors, but you do over others. The phonograph should sit on a solid floor such as concrete, not a springy wooden floor. Shim the legs so the cabinet does not wobble. I use a large carpenter's level to guarantee the cabinet is absolutely plumb and level on all sides. I assure that the tonearm swings freely with no resistance. The reproducer gaskets should be soft to improve tracking compliance. The rubber neck that joins the Pathé reproducer to the tonearm should be soft and compliant. I have found that early Pathé reproducers built with a black material (hard rubber?) have less mass than later all-metal ones or a Brunswick Ultona, and will better track grooves that are a bit off center.

Tangent tracking also seems superior to pivoted tonearms. How to do that? I have a Fletcher adapter made for Edison disk phonographs; the head will rotate so that I can play 78s or vertical-cut records on the Edison with the appropriate needle or stylus. The Edison feedscrew is not synced exactly to the pitch of Pathé records, but the adapter has generous lateral freedom, and with careful placement of the horn and reproducer, the tracking is certainly more tangential that a pivoted arm. To tape record a few problematic center-start records, I even disengaged the feedscrew and manually pulled the horn backward while playing; the adapter has enough side play to allow that.

Thread bump for new picture and sound file added to my previous post