The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello!

I seem to remember having heard from Gramophoneshane that a softer blend of shellack was used towards the end of the 78 rpm era, in the U.S., as people were replacing their old equipment with modern, lightweight pickup turntables. In Norway, it seems to me, the use of accoustic portables was common up until the sixties. HMV produced their 102 model until 1961, you know. In accordance whith this, the 78 rpm records here seem equally solid, no matter which period they come from. I would have guessed that this would be the same in low income South America.

The other day I received a batch of records from Argentina. Two of them look to me as thought they are printed in the fifties, although the recordings are older. RCA Victor, with golden letters on a deep algae green colour, which I have never seen before. As they were so well preserved, I decided to try them with a thornwood needle first, as I always do when a record looks brand new. This prodced an immediate greying of the grooves, and the friction even forced the turntable to stop. Then I remembered what Gramophoneshane said about softer shellack in late records.

The records play really well on my modern turntable. There is no more noise where the grooves are greyed than elsewhere. The problem is, I need these records for DJ-ing with my HMV portable, at tango dances. I wonder whether they would play well with a steel needle. The shellack does not feel any different from that of any other record I have. It could be that the problem was with the shape of the groove conflicting with the broad, wooden needle, and that a steel needle would turn out fine, but i dare not try, from fear of destroying them. If they are too soft for wood, what might steel do?

I wonder if any of you have information about the shellac blend in these records and how I should or should not play them?

Best regards,
Erlend

After around 1935, the record manufacturing process began to change, many of the records were softer and can be easily damaged by a steel needle under the pressure of a older acoustic reproducer. The Columbia's of the 1940's and 1950's had a "fiber paper" type core in the center and thin shellac coating. By the 1950's many labels including RCA Victor, Capitol, London etc. were using a plastic type material and using them on older machines is not advised.

I went over to nearby Valparaiso, IN and serviced a Victor VV-XIV and after servicing the motor and reproducer he and his wife could not get the records to play well, come to find out they were trying to play 1950's DOT label records on their machine, I took them a few 1920's records over and they could not believe the difference, after explaining the history of the records and how they are to only be played on certain types of machines.

Case in point, I learned that early, when I wore out Tennessee Ernie's "Milk em in the Morning Blues", on my newly acquired Magnola, what did I know I was only 14 years old. Wish we could have had this board in 1987, and the wealth of knowledge from so many fellow collectors.

Happy New Year!!!!!

Victrolacollector wrote: By the 1950's many labels including RCA Victor, Capitol, London etc. were using a plastic type material and using them on older machines is not advised.

Aside from DJ / promos, most of the 1950's Capitol and RCA Victor are still shellac, at least in my experience

I'd still avoid playing them with an acoustic reproducer though, unless they're already well played, which many of them are. They're too HI-FI for mechanical playback.

Wolfe wrote:

Victrolacollector wrote: By the 1950's many labels including RCA Victor, Capitol, London etc. were using a plastic type material and using them on older machines is not advised.

Aside from DJ / promos, most of the 1950's Capitol and RCA Victor are still shellac, at least in my experience

I'd still avoid playing them with an acoustic reproducer though, unless they're already well played, which many of them are. They're too HI-FI for mechanical playback.

I have stock copies of some rock era 78s on smaller labels (e.g., Gee, Fraternity) that are some sort of vinyl or plastic. I would think a steel needle at 100+ grams would rip right through them.

I concur, I haven't seen RCA or Capitol stock copies on anything vinyl-like, even the late issues.

I've seen a scant number of late purple label Capitol that are pressed on a thin vinyl / plastic, but I have Capitols from as late as 1956 / 57 that are still shellac. Apart from their childrens records.

Shellack discs post-1940, in particular US-made RCAs and the smaller labels, should not be played with thorns or bamboo needles, their surface will be damaged. Columbia's (laminated) and Decca's are more robust and usually ok when played with thorns. Another exception are German and French pressings from the larger labels (Pathé, Decca, La Voix de Son Maitre, Grammophon, Electrola), they are usually of high quality and play well with thorns. Discs fabricated in the 50's onwards should not be played with acoustic gramophones, besides the lack of resistance of the shellack, the volume of the record is usually too high and will distort when played by an acoustic soundbox. There are some exceptions, like English pressings up to mid fifties (His Master's Voice, Parlophon, Columbia, Decca, Brunswick), the shellack used to make them is still the same used during war time, however the quality of the pressing is usually very poor, with loud crackle that overwhelms the recordings.

I've got some Rock 'n' Roll 78s by Fats Domino and Bill Haley, that are from the 1950s. I don't dare to play those on a acoustical machine. They were made in Holland, i think that in the Netherlands the 78 was still popular in the late 50s. This wasn't the case in the USA, if i am not mistaken?
I've got many Dutch 78s that are made out of shellac, but are from around 1958-1959. I've never seen a Dutch 78 wich was made out of plastic or vinyl.

- Timo