The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hey folks,

I'm sure this topic has been talked about considerably, but I'm going to ask anyway.

I'm looking for some input from the gang here that have used various mechanics type hand cleaners (no pumice) to remove grime from oak cases that were finished with "orange" shellac. I use "Goop" and it works very nicely, but I don't know when too much cleaning is too much.

It seems that the finish softens, which leaves me to believe that it's possible to entirely remove the finish in places as well, creating color variations. BUT, I can't be sure if the color variations are just from staining of the finish from nicotine or other environmental factors being removed.

Have any of you found that the finish on Edison "Golden Oak" cases was actually orange? Or is this the color that results from age and environmental staining? Should the finish be more neutral in color?

Thanks for your input,

Fran

Check the ingredients. Some of these waterless hand cleaners contain mineral spirits ("paint thinner"), which may soften your finish.

I have never used Goop, but I know Kotton Klenser will soften and remove varnish if left on to long. I've had good luck with GoJo and have not noticed it making the varnish soft.
Best Regards, Larry

I use Kotton Klenser, leaving in on for 10 or 15 minutes usually and then wiping it off with paper towels, and have never had any problem with it removing finish. It will soften the finish a bit, but this is temporary. I will dry out in a few days.

Clay

Thanks guys!

GOOP: Isoparafins, Water, Oleic Acid, Surfactants, Triethanolamine, Glycerine, Fragrance, BHT.

I'm not seeing anything that might be harmful, but then again, I don't know what Triethanolamine is.

Fran

FloridaClay wrote:I use Kotton Klenser, leaving in on for 10 or 15 minutes usually and then wiping it off with paper towels, and have never had any problem with it removing finish. It will soften the finish a bit, but this is temporary. I will dry out in a few days.

Clay

This seems to be exactly what I encountered. The finish was a bit tacky, but it hardened almost immediately and I could buff it out after that with no ill effects. I think I may still have crud to remove. The crud coming off looks yellow/orange, maybe it is from a tobacco smokers environment.

Fran

The term "orange shellac" is somewhat generic...

There are two basic "colors" of traditional shellac: "white" shellac, which is pretty-much colorless, and "orange" shellac, which has an amber tint to it.

I have NOT used waterless hand-cleaner to clean old furniture yet, but I recently bought two tubs of Go-Jo for that purpose.


"Triethanolamine" sounds like a relative of alcohol, so that might account for the slight softening of the finish... but more than a few seasoned veterans here seem to swear by GoJo, so as long as you're not leaving it on for ½ an hour, than removing with a Scotchbrite pad, you shouldn't do any real harm ?

A close look at the finish before you start might tell you what to expect: I've noticed more than a few Edison cylinder players in golden oak whose shellac looks "patchy" or "flaky"... in these cases, the finish may tend to flake-off no matter how you approach it...

As always, test on an inconspicuous area first...

Good luck !

The only one I have used is Gojo cream to soften layers of buildup. While Gojo does a good job of loosening grime, it doesn't take the place of cleaning with naphtha and #0000 steel wool. Gojo doesn't seem to dissolve layers of old furniture wax very well, but then again, I tend to use it sparingly. It seems to me to be too "wet" of a product to use too much at once.

Gojo can soften the surface of a finish slightly- i mistakenly left the lid of the container sitting on an aligatored mahogany shelf, and the next day I picked it up to reveal a thin glossy ring. Still, the solvent properties are very mild and only can become troublesome if you leave the stuff on the surface for a long time. You must also allow a day or so for the cleaned finish to dry before applying any finish or polish.

I use mineral spirits to clean old finishes. It's fast, thorough, harmless to shellac and lacquer and does not affect the hide glue (very important on veneer where the finish is worn off).
I used GoJo once on an oak VV-50 and found it slow, messy and it softened the shellac as has been noted. All those used rags later I really cleaned the case in two minutes with mineral spirits and it was ready for the paste wax.