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Here is a seldom heard American Pathé Demonstration record from the 19teens, promoting the superior tones of the Pathé record, as well as the unique patented permanent Sapphire Ball Needle System. Also read the details in the upper right hand corner of this video, about the Pathé Solophone Model 125. The Phonograph is also featured in "Pathé Records & Phonogaphs in America, 1914 - 1922" 2nd edition by Copeland & Dethlefson. Forgive the lighting on this one, as the phonograph is located in my upstairs storage area.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb2Ri1y14P8

Thanks for sharing this video—after you were discussing this machine at the MOCAPS meeting that I attended, I was curious to see and hear it.

It sounded quite good on YouTube. Subjectively, how do you feel the Pathé records sound compared to 78s/DDs? (I’ve not had an opportunity to compare the lateral sapphire ball records.)

— MordEth

MordEth wrote:Thanks for sharing this video—after you were discussing this machine at the MOCAPS meeting that I attended, I was curious to see and hear it.

It sounded quite good on YouTube. Subjectively, how do you feel the Pathé records sound compared to 78s/DDs? (I’ve not had an opportunity to compare the lateral sapphire ball records.)

— MordEth

Actually considering the fact that this is a Solophone Co. reproducer with a very thin paper diaphragm, its sounds exceptionally well. I would have to do some sound comparisons using a Pathé Reproducer, and I don't believe I have one in my parts inventory, and this is my only Pathé related phonograph. Perhaps someone who regularly plays the Pathé patented vertical groove records with a Pathé Reproducer could chime in on this one and give their opinion.

MordEth wrote:It sounded quite good on YouTube. Subjectively, how do you feel the Pathé records sound compared to 78s/DDs? (I’ve not had an opportunity to compare the lateral sapphire ball records.)

I have a number of Pathé machines as well as conventional lateral disc players and in my opinion the Pathé system is far superior to any of the others until you get to the Orthophonic / Re-entrant era when Pathé produced machines which tended to have rather small internal horns compared to Victor/HMV/Columbia - the Olotonal cabinet machines.

From the acoustic era, the Pathé machines with Pathé reproducers out perform any of the Victor equivalents. The sound reproduced through the Pathé system with a sapphire tracking vertically and mounted on a flexible suspension gives far better bass and is softer, mellower and has better volume. Only the Victor / HMV NO. 4 can match the Pathé reproducer and considering this was intro'd in 1924/5 to cope with electrically recorded discs, that says something.

Steve wrote:I have a number of Pathé machines as well as conventional lateral disc players and in my opinion the Pathé system is far superior to any of the others until you get to the Orthophonic / Re-entrant era when Pathé produced machines which tended to have rather small internal horns compared to Victor/HMV/Columbia - the Olotonal cabinet machines.

From the acoustic era, the Pathé machines with Pathé reproducers out perform any of the Victor equivalents. The sound reproduced through the Pathé system with a sapphire tracking vertically and mounted on a flexible suspension gives far better bass and is softer, mellower and has better volume. Only the Victor / HMV NO. 4 can match the Pathé reproducer and considering this was intro'd in 1924/5 to cope with electrically recorded discs, that says something.

I agree that the Pathé system outperforms its Victor/HMV competition until the Orthophonic/Re-entrant era but "let us not forget" about Edison. I've compared an Edison Triumph, O reproducer and diamond B and cygnet horn with a Pathéphone no. 12, pictures of which I've previously posted here. (both machines are ~1906-1910 era). Both machines have had their reproducers rebuilt by recognized experts who subscribe to this forum. Both machines are of comparable price. (a no. 12 might be compared to a Vic V in dimensions and size)

With O reproducer and two minute record Edison wins or ties on volume and clarity of sound.
With O reproducer and 4 min wax Pathé wins on volume and is about equal on clarity and fullness of sound.
With a diamond B reproducer and early Blue Amberol Pathé probably wins on volume but Edison wins on clarity and fullness of sound.

Other Pathé models with bigger horns may sound better than the Pathéphone no.12 but other Edison machines sound better than a Triumph like the Amberola 1s and certainly the laboratory model DD machines.

So... if I would have been born in 1900 and had been a 20 year old Audiophile in 1920, I probably would have chosen Edison. I would have put my C250 or C19 in Grandma's room in about 1926 and purchased an Orthophonic or an HMV re-entrant. I would have continued to use that until about 198o. Mercifully I'd likely have been mostly deaf and senile before the advent of rap.

I only own one Pathé machine, so I'm speaking from limited experience here. I would agree that they sound good. The only thing I notice is that there is increased surface noise that comes out of the reproducer, but strangely NOT out of the horn. If I close the lid on my machine (mine is a tabletop model with lid), this noise is greatly reduced. Basically, these vertical discs with sapphire ball are their own type of creation, and the general surface noise on them sounds quite different from a standard 78.

I don't get a whole lot of volume out of my machine, but I am told this is due to the (poor) design of the horn on this particular model.

Is there any difference in sound quality between a French & US Pathé?
Judging purely by youtube videos, the French machines seem to perform a little better than the US models, but then many of the French machines have bigger horns anyway.

Valecnik,

I never knew Pathé made 4 minute wax cylinders too. I've read countless times that Edison was the only company who ever made them.
Any idea when Pathé started to make 4m wax & for how long?

gramophoneshane wrote:Is there any difference in sound quality between a French & US Pathé?
Judging purely by youtube videos, the French machines seem to perform a little better than the US models, but then many of the French machines have bigger horns anyway.

Valecnik,

I never knew Pathé made 4 minute wax cylinders too. I've read countless times that Edison was the only company who ever made them.
Any idea when Pathé started to make 4m wax & for how long?

Shane,

I think the European Pathé disc machines are generally much better than their American counterparts with the possible exception of the Actuelle. My impression is that Pathé seemed to come to the US relatively late in the game with their less than top models. Some of the earlier European Pathé machines can be incredibly large and elaborate.

As far as I know, Pathé did not make 4 minute cylinders. The Pathéphone no. 12 is a disc machine so I was comparing centre start Pathé discs to Edison two minute wax, four minute was and blue Amberol cylinders.

Valecnik

Ah, sorry about that- my fault, I read the line wrong

The low end North American Pathé machines weren't fabulous in terms of reproduction. I had a junker years ago that suffered on two fronts: the tubular tone arm gave an odd quality with a bad air leak problem, and the weight of the thing tended to eat records raw. Unfortunately mine didn't come with the Pathé vertical reproducer and the lateral one didn't sound wonderful. They are uncommon up here ..which I hadn't realized when I dumped the one I had in the naivite of youth.
But I quite agree that the best of the vertical cut discs are very fine...some of them are almost on par with a Diamond Disc. Funny that they could transfer so well vertically from the master cylinders, but when they began doing laterals the superior quality was lost.

Jim