The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have been playing 78's from the mid 1930's to 1945 on my Silvertone and Brunswick portables.

In some cases, I have two,seemingly identical records, one of which plays fine, the other seems to have so much friction that it slows the record audibly, and in some cases, drags the turntable to a halt. In some cases, the records slow down during a specific passage, such as high pitched vocals or loud passages where a lot of instruments are being played simultaneously.

I have tried cleaning the offending records, which sometimes helps, but usually does not cure the problem. I was thinking of coating one with Armoral, to see if the silicon would lubricate things, but it might also may a spectacular mess.

Both machines are lubricated and the governors work. Both players experience the same problems with the same records, although the Brunswick seems to perform slightly better than the Silvertone.

All needles are used only once and discarded.

Also, I have read various things about record wear, ranging from playing 78's from this era on acoustic players will destroy them in a few plays, to there being no problem with doing it, as long as the phonograph is in good shape.

What is correct? Am I destroying my records rapidly by playing them on acoustic machines? I actually bought a lot of these records just to play them on these machines.

Thank you all in advance for your assistance.

I am assuming that your records are shellac, and not the plastic ones like mid-century MGMs, right? The latter are too soft and will often come to a halt on acoustic machines. I have also occasionally experienced what you describe with badly worn shellacs.

Clay

Clay,

Thank you for the quick response.

The records are shellac. Most are Victor or Bluebird (also Victor) and say "For best results use Victor needles" on them.

Is the reproducer appropriately set on the tone arm so that the needle meets the record at the correct angel? I mention this because one of my Victrola reproducers keeps slipping out of position and I can well imagine that if the needle angel is too vertical it might cause these problems. If it is correct, I am out of ideas for the moment.

Clay

A badly worn shellac record will cause enough drag to slow almost any motor down. I have successfully treated such records with beeswax in order to cut down on drag. I've only done this with a couple of exceptional jazz records that were in bad condition. Interestingly enough, after applying the wax, not only would the motor turn the record with no problem, but I could play the record several times with a bamboo needle before having to repoint it.

Jim

Clay,

I think the angle of the needle to the record is pretty close. I have not measured it on either machine, but it looks to be approximately 60 degrees when viewed from the side and pretty close to 90 degrees when viewed from the front or back.




Jim,

Thank you for the information about the Beeswax. Based on that, I might give the Armoral a shot. Some of the records in question appear to be worn and sound pretty bad-some look shiny and new and sound great (if I could only get the turntable to turn them under its own power.


Thank you very much for the suggestions, gentlemen!

Powdered graphite is another option that was used 'back in the day', but it's messy and has health effects.

Four things immediately come to mind :

1. Badly worn and highly modulated record.

2. Stiff tonearm bearing.

3. Weak motor springs.

4. Incorrect tracking.

From what you say, all four possibilities would appear to be negated by the fact that the same result occurs on two different machines. However, it perhaps might still be worth checking these items ?

My own experience in similar circumstances---not very often---is that it is the badly worn, highly modulated record which is at fault. Beeswax would seem to be an interesting remedy which I shall try next time.

I have a victor O, and it plays all acoustically recorded Victor records perfectly, but seemingly fine Brunswick, and some Columbia acoustics will halt the machine! Sometimes using a soft tone needle will help, but not in all cases. Stragely it will even play a later (shellac still) RCA red seal 12" with no issues, but will not play a Leeds record. It plays Banner records fine.

The only thing to add is that an out of whack sound box can also cause this problem. If both sound boxes have been serviced with new gaskets, and their needle bar pivots have been adjusted to maximum compliance, then that would rule that out.

While I haven't had any problems with record drag, I made myself a simple counter-weight for playing later 1930s/1940s records on my 4-40. It's a simple device that hooks onto the tonearm, similar to the one described on this page:

http://www.capsnews.org/apn2011-3.htm

Joe