The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251502435690

The above link shows a machine for sale on UK eBay. I'm interested in opinions from members here on the authenticity of this and other machines offered by the same seller. I'll declare my hand and state that I do not like anything this seller has ever offered and usually question the origin of the machines but putting aside my own prejudices for a minute and ignoring the awful repaint job, does anyone else share my scepticism that the cabinet is completely fake? Is this based on a genuine period model or is it a new "recreation". Maybe it's heavily repaired, I don't know. The worm infestation does pique my curiosity.

What do you all think?

Well certainly seems to be a lot of machine there for that relatively tiny motor.

Thanks for the reply, Bruce.

I'm looking at the quality (or lack of) of the cabinet and seeing rough cuts, uneven shaped cut-outs and horrid globs of varnish everywhere. The sides and top do not appear to match the bottom moldings in terms of sharpness of cuts and overall quality. The metalwork has been messed with and the whole thing just looks wrong to me.

I have never seen another cabinet like this one. Has anyone else? HMV did produce several Monarchs with single spring motors for the Spanish market but is this one or a reproduction?

This machine is a hodge-podge mess of parts. The hardware was painted an awful silver. This is a late machine, because it uses a Victrola motor like you see on a VV IV or 50. Oddly, the lever brake was replaced with a bullet brake. The horn is a re-paint. You can see the uneven edge around the decal. The "fitting" on the back of the is a cobbled up piece. Victor or HMV never did this to their horns. If you can get this cheap, it would be a nice machine properly restored with the correct parts.
Harvey Kravitz

I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole.

Nice photography, though...

Thanks for the replies. No, I wouldn't touch it with the longest available barge pole either and I obviously know as well as anyone else that the metalwork is suspect, the horn has been roughly repainted etc. What I'm trying to ascertain is whether the base has any origins in an original machine or whether it is an entirely modern fabrication. The quality appears to be quite rough and it certainly doesn't match the machine I have or the others I've seen on the net. However, the seller is convinced it is an entirely original machine and prides himself on selling genuine antiques and not fakes. What I cannot therefore understand is if the cabinet has be substantially re-worked and remade or if it is indeed a genuine base that has been partially restored (badly). It could be a brand new Frankenphone without any provenance in an original model whatsoever.

I assume no one else knows either?

I used to have a couple of spanish machines - I grew up in Spain in the fifties and sixties - I'll see if I can find pictures. Anyway I think this machine is pretty much real in the sense that most of it belongs together. The thing is some incredibly insensible person has "renovated" it, probably sanded it down with a big machine leaving the sides very uneven then applied all the varnish. The transfer on the box as well as on the horn are real and exactly like the ones I had. The brake is not from this model and I find it odd that the speed regulator is behind the turntable? Also the crankhole seems to be at an odd angle / but possible.

Looking at Spains history explains why there are relatively few survivors around...

But would it be possible to bring this machine "back" I wonder.

I suspect the silver paint is Radiator Paint, which I've occasionally seen slapped over dull or worn nickle plate. It can be very tough to remove- there is something in the formula (possibly the powdered aluminum) that resists chemical strippers that forms a mess rather than lifting cleanly like most paints.

Over the past two years I have purchased a number of unique items from this seller including two wooden horn disc phonographs. While I cannot opine on the one in question I can say that the two I purchased were spot on in every respect. The other items purchased were also very well described and while not of the phonograph heritage they were also very correct. Just my two cents. kumbo