The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

As some of you may know from a different thread talking about horn options and the wisdom (or lack thereof) of buying machines off eBay due to shipping damage risk, an Edison Triumph I bought has arrived. Am starting a new thread as the topic about it has shifted.

What I have is a Triumph D rather than an E despite the cygnet horn mount and model O reproducer. I suspect it may be a fairly early D inasmuch as the bedplate has the early fuzzy Edison signature rather than the later crisp one. The instruction sheet pasted inside the lid is for the use of C and H reproducers rather than the O. The serial number is 75,383. It has the spring motor mounts (as expected), a 3-weight governor and single friction pad (another reason I thought it might be an early D), and the speed adjustment knob on top of the bedplate. The motor does seem to run fine and fairly quietly on a brief initial test and everything turns easily both above and below the bedplate. Waiting for belt material to come to test it playing a cylinder.

Being my first up close encounter with a Triumph, some questions (maybe the first of many as I slowly undertake restoration):

1. There are 2 belt pulleys, one larger than the other. There are small gears between the 2. I don't see any sign of there ever having been a belt tensioner. Is the idea that you just move the belt from the smaller to the larger pulley to change speeds? I don't see the knob to pull like the one on my Standard D.

2. With respect to the case, there is what amounts to a box built into the front right inside corner, about 3 x 7 ¾" on the sides and about 5 ¼" high, which looks to have been there from day one. I am assuming it is just for additional support of the bedplate. Right?

3. In the bottom of the case is board, 2" wide and 1 ½" high, running front to back. The board looks old. Does it belong there? Also a support of some kind?

4. The spring caps on the left and right of the motor have open holes, through which you can see the springs. What's that about.

5. The spring barrel cap on the outside of the larger barrel is loose and you can spin it with your fingers. Normal?

Clay

Hi Clay,

1. I don't know about the pulley thing but you adjust the belt tension by dropping the height of the motor with a special screw holding it to the top casting (it has a knurled nut for adjustment).

2. The box in the case is for storing some grease and oil for maintenance, it has no real purpose other than that.

3. Never seen that before

4. Spring barrels are open, that's how they designed it...

5. It's ok if you can spin the spring barrel cap, it's sole purpose is to prevent the spring to touch the winding gear.

Clay, not totally sure how to articulately answer all your questions but here's a start. Maybe others can elaborate/correct.

1. There is a vertical knurled nut in front of the governor on a small shaft. By dropping that down, the whole motor goes down, increasing tension on the belt.

2. The box is to hold accessories, crank, oilers etcetera. Been there since day one.

3. I think for protection during original shipping, (pre UPS) or protection when moving the machine around. It should absorb the weight of the spring barrels and keep that heavy motor from falling through the case.

4. The spring caps on the left and right of the motor have open holes, through which you can see the springs. What's that about. I THINK they were all open but invite other opinions.

5. The spring barrel cap on the outside of the larger barrel is loose and you can spin it with your fingers. Normal? NO, should be friction fit to barrels but no problem if it is not.

Clay

Congrats on your first Triumph Clay.
To add to what others have said, the two belt pulleys you refer to are really one belt pulley and the smaller hub is your 2 / 4 minute speed changer. You move it in and out, left / right to change between 2 and 4 minute speed.
Best Regards, Larry

Phonolair wrote:Congrats on your first Triumph Clay.
To add to what others have said, the two belt pulleys you refer to are really one belt pulley and the smaller hub is your 2 / 4 minute speed changer. You move it in and out, left / right to change between 2 and 4 minute speed.
Best Regards, Larry

Good point. Missed that one Larry!

Thanks all. Very helpful!

Clay

2. The little sectioned off area inside the cabinet is the continuation of the pull out drawer that were common to the Spring Motor and early Concert machines. Jerry

If you have what looks like 2 pulleys on the main shaft, the large one is for the belt to travel in, the smaller one is to change from 2 to 4, it has planetary gears inside, the small pulley on the right, if you push it to the left it plays 2 minute cylinders, if you push it to the right, and it clicks, it now only turns once for every 2 turns of the phonograph mandrel, so that it plays 4 minute records. Yes belt tension is done by adjusting the brass, knurled nut at the front casting of the motor. You do not want too much tension or it will not play many records, not too loose, or the belt may slip. When it came from the factory it was capable of playing 14 two minute records or 8 four minute records. If it will play 10 and 4 you still are doing well. I adjust my machines, so they will play smoothly even when the spring is almost all the way slack. I record all of my Borri Audio Laboratories wax cylinders on an Edison Triumph, the company has 1 in IL and 2 in California.

Clay, my Triumph model D is also an early one, like yours. Its serial number is 78,765. Its components are just as you describe (3 weight governor; small compartment in front right of case; no tensioner; etc.). When I bought it a few years ago it had a bracket in front for a forward-facing horn and also was equipped with a model H reproducer. I've since upgraded it to a top-mounted model O reproducer and a 11-panel cygnet horn.

Ralph

Thanks Ralph. I believe that, as is the case with yours, at some point in its life mine was upgraded with the horizontal carriage, O reproducer, and a cygnet horn. Alas with mine only the back mounting bracket for the cygnet remains, but I will be working on remedying that.

Clay