The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

eBay makes a big deal about their "Buyer Protection" program. I never put any credence in it, but decided to give it a test recently when a $3500 Columbia BS coin-op phonograph arrived and was poorly packed and not working, and the reproducer was just left to rattle around inside the casing without being wrapped, causing it to break as well. After many hours of tinkering, I gave up and contacted the seller, who would only state "it worked fine for me" and offered no apology or solution.

I opened an eBay "disputed transaction" case and followed through to comply with their procedures and protocols. In the meantime I sent the unit to a well-known restorer (Paul Baker) for him to evaluate.

Paul advised me that the unit had been imperfectly repaired in the past and would need modifications to the timing gear mechanism to prevent binding up.

I kept eBay advised of all details and that Paul's repair estimate would be ready in a few days. Their determination was to cancel the case and delete the negative feedback I had left for the seller.

So, there is the "Buyer Protection" at work. I'm a big boy and will put the unit right no matter what the cost, but as an eBay buyer and seller for 15 years, it is plain to me that they are marginalizing the little guy in favor of bulk sellers. They want to become an Amazon without stocking anything but hot air.

Raphael

Unrelated to phonographs, I initiated a dispute for an item that was not properly described on Ebay. I called Paypal and told them of the problem. I told Paypal I was also going to dispute the bill via my payment through VISA. Paypal never told me that I could not also contest through VISA. Once I did that, the Buyer Protection ended. If you click enough buttons, somewhere they supposedly state this. Luckily, VISA refunded my money. So if possible, pay through a credit card, because you have an additional level of protection.

I did that a few years ago on a much larger transaction where eBay and PayPal would not help. My MasterCard provider came to the rescue and I was able to recover almost $5k.

This is known as a "chargeback" and if you delve into the catacombs of PayPal rules, it is not allowed and they can terminate your account for initiating a chargeback. Seems that they deem themselves the Final Authority.

Raphael

I have had 2 cases as a buyer and both were resolved in my favor. In one case, the seller was a fraud and never had the merchandise in the first place. In the other, the seller had 2 lots of records for sale and accidentally sent me the wrong one. After initially being very cooperative, the seller suddenly went silent. At that point I filed the case and had my money back, including shipping, within 24 hours, and without a need to return the incorrect item.

The one catch under new procedures seems to be that they work very quickly on cases, so you probably should not to file a case until you have absolutely everything you need.

And as others said, use a credit card and get a chargeback when necessary.

I recently bid successfully for a machine at a very low price. The listing stated that carriage could be arranged at extra cost, so I sent the seller the standard message requesting an invoice for the total amount payable.

There was no response, but meanwhile eBay sent me a reminder to pay for the item, so I contacted the seller again and told eBay rather tersely that before making payment I needed to know how much to pay.

The seller finally replied and said that his wife had dropped the machine (weighing about 15kg) during packing and that it had been damaged, so it was classed as "no longer available". Difficult to challenge this explanation, but who would pack a machine before receiving payment? Was there a higher offer to sell outside eBay? Who knows?

As the "buyer" I could not cancel the transaction, so I asked the seller to do so and also asked eBay to ensure that he did. To date I have not been notified of any cancellation, but eBay has sent me a questionnaire requesting my views on their resolution of the problem. Now where do I start.........

I have saved the details of that machine, and if I ever see it relisted there will be trouble.

Unrelated to phonographs, but I also resorted
to using credit card chargeback one time years ago
when an ebay deal went sour.

I never even bothered much trying to rectify it
through ebay nor paypal. I just phoned up the
credit card company, and they took care of it
all instantaneously for me with no hassle whatsoever.

They told me they would work with ebay and paypal
if there were any problems, and they told me not to
give it another thought, because they had refunded
all of my money. One phone call is all it took.

Chuck

I have said it before, and I will say it again, and again, and again. If you choose to conduct business utilizing eBay, you do so at your own risk. The only TRUE protection that one has is either their own attorney, or their own form of vigilante justice. As curse as it may sound, it is simply the truth. Raphael just happens to be of stout enough moral character to stand behind every transaction that he is involved in. It is just unfortunate that he is put in that situation.

Hailey wrote:I have said it before, and I will say it again, and again, and again. If you choose to conduct business utilizing eBay, you do so at your own risk. The only TRUE protection that one has is either their own attorney, or their own form of vigilante justice. As curse as it may sound, it is simply the truth. Raphael just happens to be of stout enough moral character to stand behind every transaction that he is involved in. It is just unfortunate that he is put in that situation.

Every field of human activity has it's share of bad apples and eBay is no exception, but most people are honest otherwise eBay could not function. It is far from perfect, but it has enriched my machine collection and enabled me to sell surplus items for higher prices than I could have achieved elsewhere.

epigramophone wrote:

Hailey wrote:I have said it before, and I will say it again, and again, and again. If you choose to conduct business utilizing eBay, you do so at your own risk. The only TRUE protection that one has is either their own attorney, or their own form of vigilante justice. As curse as it may sound, it is simply the truth. Raphael just happens to be of stout enough moral character to stand behind every transaction that he is involved in. It is just unfortunate that he is put in that situation.

Every field of human activity has it's share of bad apples and eBay is no exception, but most people are honest otherwise eBay could not function. It is far from perfect, but it has enriched my machine collection and enabled me to sell surplus items for higher prices than I could have achieved elsewhere.

As my post clearly stated...you utilize eBay at your own risk. That was the point.

My point in bringing this to mention was to show how the eBay "Buyer Protection" is fairly worthless. Nonetheless, even though eBay has many shortcomings, it still is a valuable tool for buyers and sellers, if used judiciously.

I use it as a cheap advertising media and consider it a failure when something actually sells on-site. And, if buying, my best deals are always done on the side.

EBay will one day make it impossible for the little guy to sell. Before that day comes, just be aware of their evolving business platform and go along for the ride.

Raphael