The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Why is it that these gramophones always seem to have some sort of serious condition issues? I know it's a rhetorical question but literally every example that has come up for sale recently has had some sort of problem.

My question is a slightly different one to your's, Garret: why is it that so many (it's relative, of course, considering that only a few hundred were probably ever sold to begin with) have survived today at all? You might have thought that they would have all been emptied out decades ago, gutted to form a drinks or TV cabinet? Then later on perhaps these cabinets became completely redundant and got dumped.

However, when you begin to see why so many exist against all odds it's easier to answer your question. Only very wealthy persons could have afforded these originally. Wealthy people in general do not move around quite as much as those who have to rely on working for an income or those who are forced to travel to find work. Large family homes tend to be retained for off-spring and their descendants indefinitely for generations. These houses tend to retain an awful lot of the original furnishings and other detritus from nearly a century passing. In general, the wealthier you are, the less likely you are to ever throw anything away. Why is that, I wonder?

Into these large houses (or more probably, the garages, outbuildings and workshops) you might find relics from the past sitting beside genuine antiques and family heirlooms. Because space is rarely an issue and these kind of people don't usually fret over having the latest gadgets or fashions that the hoi polloi tend to, obsolete items like wind-up gramophones survive from the very occasional clear-out. I've lost count of the number of old regal properties I've visited where the owners have serious wealth but are satisfied with a cheap little TV set from the late 1970's / early 80's. In comparison, how many modern living "hard-working families" (to quote my friend, George Osbourne )these days don't have the latest widescreen plasma / LCD panel with a Dolby theater sound system set-up to blast their adjoining neighbours through the wall? Not many it seems.

So originally expensive gramophones tend to survive, if only by being dumped unceremoniously in the workshop by the duck pond within the glorious grounds of a rambling old house. Hence the condition is often less than absolutely perfect. Years of rough storage and less than desirable atmospheric conditions, gives rise to some of the symptoms you have rightly spotted. Having said all that I don't think this 193 is all that bad? The door handles are not original and the bezel of the 5A soundbox has split due to expansion of the pot metal stored in less than ideal conditions. Aside from that, what else is wrong with it?

That would be $476.27 plus packing and shipping to get it to the USA, and the buyer would need to arrange for pickup and shipping if the seller would consent to that.

Jim

$476? You'd be lucky!

This could fetch £2000 or more or $3200.

Looks like the piles of stuff in my garage - how did it all get transported to the UK?

I was simply quoting the current price as an illustration.

With just under 24 hours to go, the thing is languishing on a modest £510, but in true Ebay fashion all hell will probably break loose in the dying seconds. Let's wait and see......

but in true Ebay fashion all hell will probably break loose in the dying seconds

Well, not exactly in this instance! It died at £1200. Somewhat curiously at least 3 bidders "valued" it at about this price point. My guess is that they were all following the "A J Wilkinson Rule Of Bidding"! In other words none of them were exactly serious about buying it and were bidding "safely" just in case they actually ended up with it. Reluctant "buyers" in other words.

I have to say though that UK eBay in particular is no longer the place for most collectors to acquire anything. eBay has had its day. The better items still do not get anywhere near to eBay, thankfully.

Why would you care that items get to e-Bay or not? It is an auction and items go to the highest bidder. It is certainly well publicized. I know I loose many items I would like to own but at least I have the chance to bid on them. It is better than hearing Joe sold the phonograph you wanted for only $250 in a back alley after midnight.