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Between a friend and myself, we seem to be the 8-12 Barons of NE Pennsylvania, having three machines between us.

When there are more than two of anything, it seems we start noticing variations between them.

At least two of the three machines are untouched, the third having been re-motored with a Victor two-spring at some point.


So, scratching the surface, as it were, I have some initial questions:


1) Finish: two of the machines are in the 5000 block of serial numbers, and have similar medium to light color walnut finishes. The third machine is in the 9000 block, and seems to have a noticeably darker finish, and the grain is also noticeably different, with more "flame" and a little more towards a mahogany-looking wood ? ( we are looking at the interior finishes: underside of lid, motor-deck, etc, that have not suffered exposure / touch-ups )

2) Cabinet wood species: "Look for the Dog" cites that the 8-12 was available in Walnut, and does not mention another species. I will assume this is correct... has anyone seen other woods used in an 8-12 ?

3) Speed control - one of the 5000 machines (mine) has a simple speed control "small-knob", threaded in to an oval escutcheon. No needle indicator. This machine left Camden as a VE-8-12X and was converted to a four-spring motor, most likely by a dealer. The other 5000 machine (always a VV-8-12 / four-spring) has the "small-window" needle indicator, with no signs of tampering / bodging.
The 9000 machine (re-motored to a 1920's 2-spring motor) has the "small window" escutcheon and control knob bodged onto the deck, but there are no borings for the indicator needle, and "ghosts" of what appears to be the simple oval-plate/ knob as described for the first 5000 machine. Which was "standard" for the spring-motor 8-12, and was there a production change ?

4) Hardware color: the VE 8-12X early 5000 has(had) chemically-blackened brass/ bronze taper-tube, auto-stop & knobs. The second 8-12/ 5000 has bright-gold taper-tube and auto-stop controls. The 8-12 / 9000 series has bright-gold taper-tube and auto-stop.


The 5000 series machines are from 1927, the 9000 machine is from 1928-29...

Any other 8-12 owners out there that would like to share details from their machines ?


FYI - the early 5000 VE 8-12X was purchased new by my great-grandmother and has been in the family since (never altered), the later 5000 8-12 was purchased from TMF member Gemering (and seems to be un-modified), the 9000 machine was purchased from an antique coop in Eastern Pa, history unknown.

What have you ?

Frank, the only other 8-12 I've seen was walnut, definitely not mahogany. Some years ago, I passed on a chance to acquire a nice original-owner 8-12 locally; I can kick myself now, but I just didn't have the room (even though it's small enough, goodness knows!) and I wasn't ready then, and still am not willing, to part with my XI to make space for it. It had a pot-metal sound box with swelling problems (it wouldn't even come off the goose neck with moderate torque applied), and I thought maybe some day I could snare a better one. But probably not for the $75 the owner wanted! Ah, me....

Here's information on 4 of them, one of which I have yet to pick up:

VE Serial# 26xx Bronze, oval-no-window speed

VV Serial# 27xx Gold, window speed, 2-screw crank escutcheon

VV Serial# 18,xxx Bronze, oval-no-window speed, 3-screw crank escutcheon

VV Serial# 61xx Gold, can't see speed or crank handle in photos

Gold means tone arm, soundbox, platter edge, speed window, brake, motorboard lift knob, needle cup and box holders, and crank handle only, where all other parts are bronze as in the all bronze 8-12s.
Only the VE above really does look like mahogany. Other 3 similarly colored walnut.

Hope that helps.

Someone actually gave me s/n 19488 several years ago.

Walnut with a very dark finish.

Speed control knob in oval escutcheon.

No speed indicator.

Gold gooseneck, turn table and speed control.

The antique coup in PA, was it near Lancaster?
Was it an old commercial chicken coup with several rows of coups now occupied by various users?

Bob,

Thanks for your info...


The co-op was actually closer to Reading, not too far from one of Renninger's complexes.


This particular co-op was situated in a new building that also shared a gas-station / convenience mart.


Frank

CO-OP, that'll teach me not to loose my reading glasses. ARGH!

This is an old thread but I will add by 2 cents.

My VE 8-12X is number 547.
Bright gold, auto stop.
Small speed control.

Original finish mahogany open grain finish.

Mine is serial # 9858. Bronze tone arm, motor board knob, speed control (oval with no indicatore), and brake. All original except the back bracket. Purchase from the second owner who had it since the 70's. Here is the thread when I picked it up with pictures. http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=8968 Looks pretty much the same.

Can anyone post pictures of original record albums for the 8-12? I thought they were supposed to be the leatherette version, but I could be wrong. There also seems to be more than one version of the leatherette record albums. I've been trying to locate a set for a while, but can't seem to find them.

Thanks,
Matt

My VV 8-12 , has serial number 14220 , Walnut , Fittings are bronze .... I replaced the tone arm assembly with a gold , back bracketless unit.... The back bracket that was on the machine started to grow in an odd direction....I bought the machine a good 20 years ago in the Detroit area...It's my favourite Orthophonic machine , and gets played often ..The Credenza and VV 4-40 seldom get a spin...

Whoopinola,

I'm curious - I've heard / read about the "incredible bass response" from the Credenza... have you ever done a comparision between your 8-12 and Credenza ?