The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Recently a newer Northwest collector asked if I would help him find a nice Model B Standard in a banner case. That didn't seem like a too difficult task so I offered to help. My first step was to place a "Wanted" ad in the Trader section of our Forum. Kent in KC was kind enough to reply but said he had a Model C International Correspondence machine in a banner case. I was skeptical for several reasons. The Edison Company announced the end of banner decals about one quarter the way through the B series of machines. Also, this date was about two years prior to the introduction of Model C machines. I suspected a marriage of parts done by a prior collector. The C mechanism is nearly perfect and a banner case is more interesting than one that simply has the "Edison" decal. I called George P. and he shared my skepticism. Kent believed that the machine came through time just as it is and reminded me of a paper label attached to the inside of the lid which promoted the C models and their lack of an endgate. We had an opportunity to visit Kent and look at the machine. After looking at the machine I believe Kent is correct. The finish of the lid matches the banner base and the label attached to the inside of the lid is convincing evidence that it came through time just as it is. I was convinced enough that $500 later, the machine is mine.
Does anyone have knowledge of the ICS Company? Did Edison assemble complete machines for the ICS company? Did Edison send cabinets which were later mated to ICS mechanisms?
We are still looking for a nice banner Model B Standard. Our new collector would like to later find a Cygnet horn and combination gearing for his machine.

There was some discussion of ICS machines when I posted mine as a featured phonograph:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=15757

Frow also talks about them a bit in his book.

One thing I did notice on yours is that neat "A to Z" guide on the repeater. That's something I haven't seen before.

Jerry,

The lid label has a date code of 10/27/09, and the machine's serial number certainly suggests 1909. (I once owned a Standard D serial No.676769.) Clearly, the mechanism and lid date from 1909 - - possibly 1910.

As I suggested at Union, ICS would have been restricted from selling its language course phonographs in New York State after early 1908 unless the machine complied with the restrictions imposed by Andem's lawsuit (basically resulting in the Model C machines). Since ICS had an inventory of Edison Phonographs purchased in good faith of being salable anywhere in the U.S., National Phonograph Co. probably had to make good on the deal. My guess is that National accepted a certain number of Model B Standard mechanisms from ICS in exchange for Model C mechanisms to be sold in New York State. Since the tags had already been nailed into the cabinet (making it unsalable for National), ICS would have kept the cabinet and dropped in the Model C mechanism when it arrived, and possibly shellacked the supplied label into the lid as well.

All this is surmise on my part, but Edison couldn't possibly have thumbed its corporate nose at ICS when all those Model B machines became illegal in New York State.

What a great machine! I must admit that I was very skeptical, but after seeing these details, I'm confident that this Standard represents a brief moment in time when ICS had to comply with Andem's lawsuit using new mechanisms in old ICS cabinets. There can't be many of these around!

George P.

Jerry,

That's a nice machine. The Banner lower case does stretch credibility somewhat, but I'm inclined to believe that it came this way from either ICS or Edison. The lid on this is typically seen on a Late style case (no extended lower lip). There are one or two other ICS machines from the same approximate serial number range I've seen with the Tall case with the Late lid including sticker as seen here. I'm wondering if towards the end of Standard production, Edison used the ICS to use up obsolete parts. In any case, it's an interesting machine.

Regards,
Martin

PS - just read George's take on it. Sounds like a plausible theory.

martinola wrote:
PS - just read George's take on it. Sounds like a plausible theory.

Tune in next week for another spellbinding yarn from "The Old Storyteller...!"

George P.