The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I've been playing quite a few DDs lately
using a new stylus from Expert in England.

It passes the runoff test very nicely.
It does not mark the shiny surface at all.

However, after playing several record sides,
if a finger is gently wiped against the stylus
tip, a very fine, very small bit of greenish-grey dust can be seen.

The amount of this dust is very little.
It's way less than the size of the head of
a pin. It reminds me very much of similar
dust which ends up on a C doorknob or a
4 minute model H stylus after playing a few
2 minute gold moulded or 4 minute black wax
cylinders.

Is this tiny bit of dust normal?

What is the general concensus about this?

Thanks again, Chuck

Chuck I think it is just dust in the grooves if it is that little amount. If it is fluffy and not real gritty it should just be from the records not being played. If you have a more brownish dust, that is not good, or if it is real gritty, a tiny bit after a playing session is normal, especially if the records have not been cleaned. Cleaning with 90% alcohol and velvet or the material you have been using for your liners.

Well, here's an idea:

How about a bunch of DD owners starting
with a clean stylus by gently wiping the
stylus tip with a finger.

Then, play several recreations, maybe 6 or 8
sides.

Then after playing those, gently wipe the stylus tip with a finger and report back
what you see on your finger.

Dust or no dust? That is the question.

Thanks. Chuck

Chuck,

Most likely your going to see a bit of dust on the diamond after playing a few records. Expert diamonds can hold up but most of the ones I have owned eventually ended up damaging the records.. I am currently using and older one that member sold me. It has held up pretty well leaving a very slight mark in the run off when seen under a bright light. But the latter ones I purchased lasted from one day to a year before failing.

One thing I had to do is to check my records very closely and if a record has an audible scratch or dimple in the surface I no longer play those sides. Steven Medved said that the new stylus are prone to chipping if playing a record that is not in good shape. My take is the older diamonds may have somehow been a bit more forgiving than what we get now.

Larry

Thanks Larry, for your opinion about the fine
dust. It makes sense to me, because this fine
DD dust looks very similar to 2M Gold Moulded
dust, and 4M black wax Amberol dust, which
I have been looking at now for well over 40
years.

As far as the Expert DD diamond, it's working
ok so far. I am being very careful with it.

But, I would really like to find a couple of
Edison original stylus bars with NOS Edison
diamonds in them.

If anyone knows of the whereabouts and availability of these, please, contact me
off list.

Because if I can find one of those, this
Expert thing is going to get chucked into
the drawer as a spare faster than you can
say "yank the pin!"

Chuck

Played 22 DDs today, both sides, on my C19, testing some new purchases. All pre-cleaned with denatured alcohol. Edisonic with good original stylus. There was enough black dust on the stylus tip to make a small smudge on the end of my finger. Nothing I'd be at all concerned about.

Clay

Not to change the subject too much Chuck, but do you notice dust (blue of course) from blue Amberols too (using a diamond A, B, or C)?

ImperialGuardsman wrote:Not to change the subject too much Chuck, but do you notice dust (blue of course) from blue Amberols too (using a diamond A, B, or C)?

I do not see any blue residue playing a good condition Blue Amberol with a diamond reproducer. The cylinder reproducers have a lighter tracking weight than the disk reproducers. I personally think the standard disk reproducers were pushing the limits in the compromise between wear and volume, and that the Edisonic and Dance reproducers go beyond the acceptable limit. In those days, people probably weren't as bothered by wear as we are today.

To comment on previous posts related to the disks, I am able to wipe a speck of dark residue from the diamond after playing several clean disks with a good original diamond. I think it is normal and have yet to detect any wear on some of my favorite disks played over the years. Worn disks will shed more residue than nice ones.

This is great! Thanks everyone so far, for
running these tests and reporting the results.
I know it's a dirty job to have to play all
those records, but somebody just has to do it.

It all sounds very much in line with what I've
observed so far here with my C-250 and DDs.

As to the question about if I've ever seen
any blue dust from blue amberol cylinders
played with a heavy "diamond" series
reproducer, I have not ever seen any.

The reason for this is because I do not
curently own any machines that have a
"diamond" series cylinder reproducer.

In fact the *only* 4-minute reproducer I
own and use is a model H for my Standard D
combination machine.

That one scrapes up a tiny amount of dust
from black wax amberols, but I've never noticed much or any B/A dust on it.

Yep, Edison really started using heavy, heavy
weights in later years. You can see the handwriting on the wall by looking at the
"diamond" series of cylinder reproducers, then
look at how those genetic traits were passed
on to the DD reproducers as they evolved,
ultimately ending up in the Edisonic and
Dance reproducers, which do very definitely
push the limits of that whole technology
and maybe do go over the edge a bit.

But hey, nothing made today even holds a candle to that amount of greatness, record
wear, or no record wear. So, there's
apparently not much harm in a little dust here
and there. Let the testing continue.

Chuck