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Hi, a couple of days ago when I played on my gramophone did the spring make an awful sound, I am now unable to wind it up anymore, probably over winded. What should I do now? The model is a Victor IV so should I change both the springs or just one? Is this even something that me as an amateur will be able to do? What kind of size/lenght on the spring/spring do you recommend? Later when the spring/springs are fixed, any tips on how to keep them functional?

Many thanks
//Henrik

Henrik, it is possible that one of the springs broke. Did the loud noise happen while you were winding the spring, or did it break while the machine was playing?

Although I service the springs in my own phonographs, I don't believe it is something that the average collector would want to try. Removing a large coiled spring is messy and potentially dangerous. You must be a mechanic and good with your hands and have the proper tools. You can search Youtube for examples of springs being installed and then decide for yourself. I have a Victor III with the same motor. That motor design is not hard to disassemble, except for removing the springs from the spring barrels. There are lots of little tricks that make the repair easier. For example, I could not press the round metal plates back into the spring barrels to seal them with my bare hands. The thin spring barrels are made from pressed steel and are sometimes slightly oval (by a few thousandths of an inch). I had to use a large vise to squeeze the plates back into place.

Ron Sitko in the USA sells quality springs that are inexpensive compared to other sellers.

It is a calculated gamble to keep the remaining spring. I would suggest replacing both springs so that their strength is balanced - otherwise, the weaker spring (the old one) will be wound tighter and might break much sooner from fatigue than the new spring. But who knows? The old spring might last for years.

--Keith

The incident happened while I was winding up the gramophone. I should now start looking for someone who can repair my gramophone, the problem is that I live in Sweden. Specialist on more "odd" things in this country are too few and far between. If i somehow find someone who has the necessary knowledge for this kind of work, is it then best for me to buy the correct springs beforehand? What kind of dimensions of spring do my gramophone require? I am going to change both springs, I do not know if this has any impact on the purchase of springs more than that I should buy two instead of one.

//Henrik

Henrik,
Regardless if you are winding or playing....a spring can break. In your case living in Sweden....if you can not locate a person close that replaces phonograph springs....you can try a person that replaces clock springs.

I would order the spring or springs from a person in the US like Ron Sitko. All you will need to do is tell him the make and model needed.

Regarding your other question.....many collectors believe that when a spring breaks that is in tandem with another, it is better to replace "all". The theory is, a new spring will be stronger and heather and that this will put more strain on the other weaker spring.

It's a personal choice. Given you are in Sweden.....I would would say change both while the motor is apart and last you another 100+ years.

Again, once you have the spring (s) in your hand. Find a good clock man.

Changing springs is not a nice job for anyone. However, it can be very dangerous to the inexperienced and costly if a mistake is made both to you and the motor.

Given the spring cost remains the same regardless..... you need to ask yourself...."if a clock man can do it right the first time. Why not spend the money on the proper installation"...??.

Hope this helps.

Henrik, I have some ideas. Would you be able to take the motor apart by yourself? The spring barrels are easy to remove from the motor.

Then find someone who is brave enough to yank the coiled springs from the barrels! It is easy to grab the center of the coil with pointed pliers and pull the coil out with a a sudden movement. Just be careful when you do! The springs come out much easier and also faster than they go back in.

Talk to Ron Sitko first and see if he will install the new springs for you. If so, then mail the empty barrels and round metal plates to him. Whoever installs the springs should also pack the coils with grease and press the round metal plates into the barrels to seal the grease. Then you can reassemble the motor after the springs have returned.

Last year Ron Sitko sold me two large springs for a rare Edison Opera for $30 each. I think that price was a bargain. The Victor IV should be a more common machine and so the Victor springs should not be more expensive than for the Edison.

The shipping costs may cost more than the new springs, but I guess you know that. The Victor IV is a valuable machine worth repairing.

--Keith

If you wish to take the broken spring out yourself, I would recommend a few things:

. A good bench vise
. A couple of wooden blocks with V-shaped cuts in them: these can be placed in the jaws of the vise, to grip the spring barrel more firmly.
. A pair of heavy duty work gloves

Once you have got the center coils out, take a firm grip on the spring, and feed it carefully from hand to hand as it uncoils.

If the break is at the outermost end, it is possible to anneal the last few inches of the spring with a blowtorch, and create a new hole to hook into the barrel. (Something similar can be done if the break is at the center: however, this will result in a greater loss of power). If the break is in the middle, replacement is the only real option.

I hope this is of some help.

Bill

If you remove the springs don't forget to mark the direction they are wound on the spring barrel.

Henrik,

Your call of course, but you have a nice machine worth having properly repaired. If it were me, unless you might run into some sort of exorbitant customs duties in your country (I don't know the rules there), I would just remove the spring barrels and mail them off intact to someone like Ron Sitko or George Vollema here in the US for spring replacement. They will know exactly what springs to install and will do the job properly without the do-it-yourself mess and risk of damaging either yourself or the parts. You can find addresses for them on the Links page here on the Forum.

I have used George Vollema (Great Lakes Antique Phonograph) for this particular job a number of times and have always been pleased with his work. His prices are reasonable and he give fairly quick turn around time. I have high regard for Ron Sitko also, but have no personal experience with his repair work.

Clay

FloridaClay wrote:Henrik,

Your call of course, but you have a nice machine worth having properly repaired. If it were me, unless you might run into some sort of exorbitant customs duties in your country (I don't know the rules there), I would just remove the spring barrels and mail them off intact to someone like Ron Sitko or George Vollema here in the US for spring replacement. They will know exactly what springs to install and will do the job properly without the do-it-yourself mess and risk of damaging either yourself or the parts. You can find addresses for them on the Links page here on the Forum.

I have used George Vollema (Great Lakes Antique Phonograph) for this particular job a number of times and have always been pleased with his work. His prices are reasonable and he give fairly quick turn around time. I have high regard for Ron Sitko also, but have no personal experience with his repair work.

Clay

X2

Thanks everyone for your kind and informative answers! I will contact Ron Sitko and order the proper springs. I will later contact someone experienced in Sweden about the change, or talk to a clock master about it.

Once again, thanks!
//Henrik