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Yes, thanks to everyone again--and probably won't be the last time I write that. Armed with what people wrote me and photos I found on the Internet with regards to Model BF, I just now got the motor out of the case. I was hoping to find an original copy of the Declaration folded up in side, but alas, no. What I did find was the dirty motor and four mainspring barrels. It looks untouched and ripe for a good cleaning.

Here's how I got the motor out. It did not want to budge and I was afraid of damaging the works and the wood. I could see signs of earlier removal from tool marks--probably from a screwdriver that was being used to pry the works out of the case. All these marks were quite old, and the wood had re-aged. I would say these marks date from the original period of use, which is also to say I did not want to add any new marks. So I used a broad spackling knife and a slat of wood to loosen up the corners of the motorboard. This took some careful work and constant monitoring of everything so that I did not damage the wood or the metal. Eventually one corner came loose. Then I worked on the opposite corner. Then--voila!--out it came.

I note the governor's weights are made of lead and there is white powder on them. That would be lead oxide

I've attached some photos for your inspection.

Hi John-- just got back in town and saw your successful surgery post- Congrats!! I told you getting your hands dirty on these machines is addicting! have fun with it-

Brad Abell

John,

Congratulations on your careful persistence and welcome to the world of phonograph restorations.

You already are going the right direction with photos, photos and more photos. There is nothing more frustrating that finishing with a spare screw and the phono not working quite right.

bruce

Brad: Yes, got it out, and now have the upper part removed and the mandrel taken off. (There's a reverse threaded nut in there.) Would like to remove the Lyric holder of the reproducer, but haven't figured that out yet. Hopefully the bar that it slides back on forth when playing a record is removeable and the Lyric reproducer slides off as a complete assembly. Then I plan to clean the upper part possibly with some gently soap. Don't want to damage any painting. I'm photographing things as I go along. If of any interest to anyone, I will post them.

There are set screws in the cast iron bedplate assembly at the ends of the rod that the carriage rides on. Loosen those and the rod slides out sideways and allows the carriage assembly to be removed.

I'm sure this sort of basic information is somewhere but I couldn't find it. I now have the governor and another wheel/pinion removed from the motor frame. There is simply old oil and grease everywhere. And judging by the screw heads, I am not the first to disassemble the motor. At some point I will have the motor reassembled and I will need to lubricate it. I have fixed watches and clocks for many years (not professionally but I do a good job), and the way you oil a clock and watch is often stated as "the right amount of oil in the right places" You never put oil on the teeth of a wheel or the leaves of a pinion--that creates drag. It also attracts dust, which leads to wear. You put the right amount of oil only on the pivots.

Now the wheels on my BF and the pivots are much larger than any watch I've worked on--they're the size of a watch. Should I follow my watchmaker's rule or, given the size of the mechanism, should I oil liberally? That's the question: how do I lubricate the darn thing? I'd like to hear what people think. Related questions would be, what type of oil to use and should a different oil be used to lubricate the mainsprings?

Which brings me to my next question: Is there a single arbor that runs through all four mainspring barrels? Do they come out as a unit or separately? There is no power on them now, as I had taken that off before I removed the governor.

Thanks in advance for any help/suggestions/advice.

John,

Interesting question about grease/oil on the teeth of the wheels. Generally most phonograph restorations have a very thin application of oil on the teeth. Likely this is to reduce distracting engine noise when playing music. Although, this dictates a good cleaning every couple of decades due to dust build up.

There was a really good thread several months ago about using 95 weight automotive gear oil to lubricate gears and bearings. I have been using this for several months and seems to work very well.

The center shaft of the springs is in two sections. One between the right spring and the two in the middle and the second between the left spring and the two in the middle. I would mark the order of the springs for later assembly as I somehow flipped the middle spring, no big deal but it took up a few minutes of contemplation to get it back the correct way.

Earlier you asked about removing the carriage arm from the carriage shaft. Inside the shaft is a feed screw which when rotating pushes the carriage along by coming contact with the half nut. This half nut is held against the feed screw with a small spring. To disengage it use a flat head screw driver to push the half nut down and then slid the carriage shaft out.

I suggest that you purchase a copy of Eric Reiss' "The Compleat Talking Machine" It is often referred to as the phonograph/gramophone collectors bible, and is full of repair hints and photos for a broad range of machines.

Another hint is when you are putting it all back together the screws supporting the motor to the motor board also set the tension on the belt. Lower the motor if the belt is too loose and tighten them if the motor runs but slows after a short play (meaning the belt is too tight).

Bruce

Got some more pictures. I've had the upper part of the machine off and cleaned for a few days. By upper part, I mean the carriage etc that holds the cylinder. I took that apart and lightly cleaned everything. But just now I managed to get the mainspring barrels out, which meant I had to remove the set screws and barrel arbor. To do that took some studying. For the life of me, I couldn't figure out which way to push. Finally something budged, and I subsequently used a wooden dowel to drive the barrel arbor out. Wood is softer than metal, and the dowel was the ideal means to drive the arbor out and inflict no damage. Now the screw slots on these set screws has suffered the handiwork of an incompetent repair person. The iron on these old machines is softer than the modern steel used to make screw drivers. If one doesn't take care, you can easily bugger up the slot with the wrong screwdriver. What I did was use a well-fitting screwdriver that seated well in the slot. Then I used pliers to grab a hold of the shaft of the screwdriver at a right angle (down close to the screw) so's I could provide some torque at the point where it was needed. I managed to get all the set screws out with no further damage. Anyway, have a look. The mainspring barrels are full of some sort of black oil that I'm not familiar with. What should I do? By the way, that last wheel that is still mounted on the motor frame is screwed on. Again, I'd like to thank Curt, Bill, Bruce--I've probably forgotten some one--for all the encouragement and advice. I would not have gotten this far without all the help. Please don't go away. I still got some disassembly to do. And then there's always putting the thing back together again . . .yikes!!

Me again. I wouldn't mind finding some nice set screws to replace the ones I got. But I guess that's the sort of wish we all make. If you look at the photo of the motor mount with no mainsprings, at the tip you will see alittle brass hammer, a white plastic knife, some wooden dowels--and the barrel arbor.