The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I saw an unusual horn with an Edison Standard Model A recently. It is black with a red inner bell, quite long and made out of paper mache. It does not look home made and where it is worn one can see that the paper used was Japanese newspaper. I did not take horn measurements but the picture below shows the relative size compared to the Standard.

The machine has a morning glory crane bracket on the back but the crane is missing. The horn has a D-ring attachment for a chain. There were a few brown wax home recorded cylinders amongst regular Edison cylinders, so I ask our experts out there...

Could this possibly a recording horn? If not, then what?

David

This is not a recording horn, but a horn made in Japan and imported into the U.S. for a short time during the 1905/06 period. These horns are often referred to as "Kyoto" horns, although apparently a couple of different Japanese firms made them. The first Victor 6 (later VI) machines were equipped with an all-black version. We show several types (including the Victor 6 version) in Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks and also in Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions.

George P.

These were normally finished in bright black lacquer, with painted Japanese decorations. I wonder if yours was repainted at some point? The small end looks to have had some repairs, not particularly well done. Here's an example of a typical Kyoto horn, also referred to as "Allen's Paper Lacquer Horns" since they had a painted label with that name on the side.

The narrow body and abruptly flared bell is typical.

" We show several types (including the Victor 6 version) in Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks and also in Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions. "

If there is an illustration in the book of this particular Kyoto (crane supported) horn that would be great to see. The Victor and Columbia versions all appear to be self supported (and different lengths).

fourforty wrote:" We show several types (including the Victor 6 version) in Antique Phonograph Gadgets, Gizmos, and Gimmicks and also in Antique Phonograph Accessories & Contraptions. "

If there is an illustration in the book of this particular Kyoto (crane supported) horn that would be great to see. The Victor and Columbia versions all appear to be self supported (and different lengths).

Tinfoil Phonograph has posted (above) a photo of his crane-supported Kyoto horn. There are various designs on the inner surfaces of other similar horns. What in particular are you looking for?

I'm unclear as to what you mean by "Victor and Columbia versions all appear to be self-supported..." Neither Victor nor Columbia manufactured this type of horn.

George P.

George,

I don't see the crane hardware in Tinfoil Phonograph's photo above. Please help me to see where it is. Thanks, David

fourforty wrote:George,

I don't see the crane hardware in Tinfoil Phonograph's photo above. Please help me to see where it is. Thanks, David

No crane hardware is present in the photo, as the horn is suspended from the ceiling.

George P.

Indeed -- it should be supported by a floor crane or one attached to the machine, but lack of space on that top shelf forces me to suspend horns from the ceiling.

Actually, that ploy was not unknown back in the day. I've seen a couple of period photos where original owners did the same thing. I'm sure that was a particularly tempting option to replace cumbersome floor cranes.

Agreed - I've seen several period photos showing horns hung from the ceiling. We even included a few in our books.

George P.

Let me just add that identifying a recording
horn boils down to asking the question:
"Does this horn have any kind of a flare or
a bell on the end?"

If the answer is yes, then in most cases, it
is not a recording horn.

Recording horns are straight, conical affairs
with no bell or flare.

This is due to the fact that any bell or flare
tends to reflect the sound pressure waves
off, they bounce off and tend not to get
concentrated down the cone, to the recorder
diaphragm.

Anyone can prove this to themselves by testing
several horns of different shapes and profiles
and then finding which ones make the clearest,
loudest, best-sounding recordings.

The straight conical horns always win.

Chuck