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I was reading R.J. Wakeman's book on Brunswicks, and even though I do not own one, they are beautiful and fascinating machines.

I do own a lidded tabletop Pathé Model 60 (American Model), the machine has a Pathé tone arm and reproducer, however it has the motor, crank and turntable.
This would really put it into a class of independent machines like Cheney, Magnola and Starr which all used the Heineman motors and hardware.

It appears that Brunswick had their own style motors and hardware, so in my opinion it made them more of "name brand" like Victor, Columbia and Edison. What are the feelings of other collectors on this. I agree that Pathé and Brunswick both had their own record labels, but aside from that it seems Pathé was more of a "independent" maker. It seems to me that Pathé was not very favorable now and is still not very favorable by most collectors.

To my ear the Brunswick produces better tonal quality from a Pathé record than does the Pathé machines them selves. I can't prove it but I tend to think the rather crude design and undersized horns on the cabinet models may be part of the blame here. Yes I love my Brunswick and other models of it I have owned. The motor quality is top notch and its rare to have a noisy brunswick where as the Victors I have owned all had tendencies to do so.


Larry

When comparing anything to Pathés, you ought to consider the American and French Pathés seperately.

Even as a Pathé enthusiast, I find the American Pathés are less appealing than the French machines. The American Pathé cabinets are so cheaply designed as to be ugly, and most of the models except the Actuelle are fairly similar. Their internal horns are quite small and don't do justice to the reproducers which are actually quite good when overhauled with fresh gaskets.

The French machines have much more style, ornateness and innovation. The reflex "horns" and external horns put out a great sound.

All Pathés have cheap-looking motors compared to the major American brands, but they perform adequately enough to get the job done.

I have a Brunswick and think the motor is first-rate, comparable to Edison and Victor. However, the die-cast Brunswick Ultona 3-way reproducer has too much mass to track Pathé vertical records reliably, especially if the record grooves are are pressed off-center relative to the spindle hole, or if the records are slightly warped. No question, the Ultona sounds good, but so do tuned-up Pathé reproducers. The Ultona will track some Pathé records just fine, while other records skip regardless of all adjustments to the tonearm assembly. The depth of Pathé record grooves is shallow and inconsistant among various Pathé records. I think the Ultona will wear records and stylus quicker due to the weight (adjustable) required to track the records without skipping.

The body of the lightest-weight French Pathé reproducers are made from what appears to be hard rubber, and with a rubber tube coupling them to the tonearm, they track really well. The American Pathé reproducers also track better than the Brunswick, in my experience.

I have a Pathéphone VII ( American built ). Cabinet is almost a dead-ringer for an Edison S-19 Sheraton Diamond Disc player.


I've been frustrated trying to get the Heinemam two-spring "flyer" motor to run evenly through a 10 inch lateral disc.

I put new rubber in the soundbox, and the sound is okay for a machine of small/medium size. I have not had a chance to try it with Pathé` discs.

It looks to me like a machine designed and built to meet a price-point.


I have two Brunswick uprights, one a 117 in golden oak, with a four-spring motor and the Ultona 3-way soundbox. Brunswick was the equivalent to Pierce-Arrow, Packard, Locomobile (etc.) in terms of their build-quality. They also offered machines in several price-brackets, but like Victor, even their lower-priced models were still quality pieces.


Personally, unless I found an external-horn European Pathé`, or a nice Actuelle, I probably would not give them a second look...

I don't have any Pathé machines so can't comment on them. I do think the Brunswick machines were very well built. The cabinets are well made and nicely designed. The motors run extremely quiet. IMHO, they are every bit the equal of a Victor or Edison console machine in quality. I think the only reason there is less interest in Brunswick machines by some is their relative late entry into the field and therefore no Brunswick outside horn machines.

I don't own any Pathé machines either, so unfortunately I cannot comment on the original theme of the thread but , as a fan of the Brunswick, I would like to comment on their virtues. I have two, a 120 upright, and a "Q" console. Each machine has a well built nickel plated motor and they run absolutely silent.
The cabinets are well built and sturdy, the console in particular, which has the sturdiest cabinet in the house, almost over built.
For me , the Ultona produces a nice rich tone on laterals. It also does a very nice job on Diamond Discs.
When playing Pathé verticals, I have not experienced any trouble with tracking except if the turntable isn't absolutely level. if it isn't, the Ultona will skate across the record.
I am no expert on knowing the differences in some records, but the upright and console both play American vertical Pathé and French center start verticals very well.

Mike

With few exceptions, my Brunswick handles verticals well also. A slightly off center or warped Pathé can have issues on it though.

Sean

I own two American Pathé machines - one oak table model and the other an oak upright. They are both the LOUDEST machines in my collection except for my Victor orthophonic with a Peter Wall rebuilt reproducer. I love the plain mission oak style oak cabinets. I also have a French Pathé cylinder machine that looks just like an Edison Gem.....

I have a soft spot for Pathé records and phonos. My first phonograph, which I still own but haven't played in ages, was a Pathéphone 100 upright in mahogany. I also have the Diffusor that is my avatar machine and a No. 0 cylinder player. The last-named is peculiar in that the mandrel runs backward relative to any other machine I've ever seen. The upright may or may not be "up to snuff" sonically compared to other makes, but back when I got it I put hours and hours and hours of pleasurable time on it playing--mostly laterals, actually.

With the right record, the Diffusor is quite the loudest machine I've ever heard. Nothing else, acoustic or electric (including modern stereo gear) has given me a better sense of the sheer size of an operatic voice. On the other hand, it seems to be rather sensitive to humidity--as the water content of the air goes up, the sound gets, well, soggy.

The upright came with a cabinet full of mostly popular Pathé records, and for a long time I'd snap up any Pathé record that came my way so that I'd have fodder for the machine. Then, when eBay came into my life, I started seriously accumulating the operatic issues. On that basis, I will say that compared to other makes the Pathé populars are pretty weak beer, on the whole, at least the ones I've encountered. The operatic records are an entirely different story.

One neat thing that came with the upright was a Pathé demonstration record. It opens with a voice intoning, "I am a Pathé record, guaranteed to play a thousand times, and with care I will live to speak to your grandchildren when they are as old as you are." I guess it did, too!

The only Brunswick I've ever owned was one of the early electric era ones. I got it at a flea market when I was in high school in the mid-to-late '70s, at which point it was actually green from all the coats of shellac or whatever that had been slapped on it over the years. Many hours of work and lots of furniture stripper later, it turned out to have a really gorgeous walnut case with burl inlay on the doors. The appearance and size were rather like my more recently acquired Edisonic Schubert, but the quality of the joinery was far better. Alas, that was way back before people, at least kids in the provinces like me, knew about things like bad gasket tubing. Worse, I had no idea that the machine was like an Orthophonic, suitable for early electric records but not so much for acoustics, which at that time made up the bulk of my collection. So it really sounded pretty bad, I'm sure through no fault of its own, and I sold it. I feel bad about that machine, that in some way I failed it, because I'm fairly sure the people who bought it planned to gut it and turn it into a bar.

I own a Brunswick Parisian portable disc machine and an early Pathé cylinder machine, which is my avatar. I like them both, because they are kind of quirky and different. The Parisian with it's paper horn and the Pathé with it's crazy system of moving the horn to the grooves of the record - no feedscrew. And it folds into a neat little package that looks like a jewelry box with a brass handle on top - very French artsy... I think that Pathés, particularly the French ones, are attractive for their unusual styling and who cares if they play great or not?