The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

This is a Victor I cabinet that was purchased at auction. The buyer thought it was a fake or modified cabinet, so didn't keep it all together. The obvious differences are the larger bottom molding, the corner columns and additional trim pieces. The original parts included a beveled turntable and the correct beveled brake, along with the motorboard and motor parts.

After examining it, the cabinet appears to be a factory modification or special order, since the columns, extra trim and moldings would have been difficult to make by a owner in his/her home. The serial number on this cabinet was very early - #479 - and from the finish condition and other details, if this was modified by a subsequent owner, it was done right after it was purchased.

The question is this: Is this an Eldridge Johnson cabinet or early Victor variation that was a prototype, OR is it a later modification by a subsequent owner? If this turns out to be an important cabinet, the possibility of regrouping all of the original parts is still possible... Any educated ideas?

There is more than enough information just on the label you posted for you to make an "educated" guess. All you need to do is read George & Tim's first book.... .
BTW, the buyer was most correct and obviously well educated in Phonographs...

gramophone78,
I see the Victor Talking Machine Co designation on the label and I think I understand where you are going with this, since it is too late for an actual Eldridge Johnson machine, but it sort of resembles some of the Eldridge Johnson details - different style columns and moldings. However, this is in the very early years of Victor and maybe this design was tossed around as a possibility for production... just look at all of the Edison variations. This has been looked at by a number of knowledgeable collectors with no definitive conclusion. I am just throwing this out for more input. The puzzling part about this case is why would someone go to the extreme trouble just to add columns and molding to a relatively inexpensive machine. This had to be done by someone who was a very knowledgeable wooodworker... or the factory. Typically, owner additions leave a lot to be desired in the way of quality...

I'm counting your comment as: "It's modified..." Anybody else?

The fact that the label bears the March 1, 1902 date (in common with all circa 1904/05 Victor Is), and bears the $22.00 price strongly suggests a typical Victor I cabinet that was tarted up later on. There were no Eldridge Johnson models that sold for $22.00.

Here's how it started out: George P.

You need to look at the label a little more.....here's a hint....$22.00. There is even more on that label. As I wrote already.....I believe the "buyer" knew what they were talking about. Bottom line.....just junk what's left.... . However, you may be able to use this for a future "creation".
I see George has just beat me on this one AND mentioned the date....Thanks George.... .

Looking at the photo full size, I can see that nails were used to affix the corner columns and molding to the cabinet. The holes looked to have been plugged with wax or some other material --
All of the Victors I've see that were equipped with corner columns used screws, inserted from the back, to hold the columns, etc., in place, so they wouldn't show.

Along this line, the columns and molding used looks to be stained a slightly different color than the sides of the cabinet.

I'd agree with the others that this was a later alteration, possibly a homemade job.

Joe

Joe_DS wrote:Looking at the photo full size, I can see that nails were used to affix the corner columns and molding to the cabinet. The holes looked to have been plugged with wax or some other material --

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All of the Victors I've see that were equipped with corner columns used screws, inserted from the back, to hold the columns, etc., in place, so they wouldn't show.

Along this line, the columns and molding used looks to be stained a slightly different color than the sides of the cabinet.

I'd agree with the others that this was a later alteration, possibly a homemade job.

Joe

I'm sorry, but your statement is incorrect. There are many Victor models where the columns are glued in place. For example......Victor 3's or humpback 2's....etc.....
In my opinion.....this is basic "Phono 101"..... .
As for the "possible" homemade modifications.....it's clearly not only "homemade", but a crappy job at best...... .

gramophone78 wrote: I'm sorry, but your statement is incorrect. There are many Victor models where the columns are glued in place. For example......Victor 3's or humpback 2's....etc.....
In my opinion.....this is basic "Phono 101"..... .
As for the "possible" homemade modifications.....it's clearly not only "homemade", but a crappy job at best...... .

Well, actually, I deliberately tried to qualify it by saying, " Victors I've see." (Oops, I left the "n" off. )

In any event, the point I was trying to make was, I've never seen any corner columns, molding, etc., that were attached via nails, driven in from the front of the cabinet, so the nail holes would show--plugged or not. (Perhaps they did, but I've never seen it.)

Joe

"Bottom line.....just junk what's left.... . However, you may be able to use this for a future "creation"."

Actually, I won't be able to use it for anything, since I passed on it in the first place and do not own it now... Just checking for the guy who bought it from the first buyer at the auction... My initial thoughts were exactly what you all have expressed... the doubt came in from the quality of the workmanship in making those additions and the fact that I never rule anything out just because I haven't seen one in the last 40 years.

OK, you all agree that its concocted junk...

"As for the "possible" homemade modifications.....it's clearly not only "homemade", but a crappy job at best...... ."

OK, for those of you that think it's a crappy job, try making that molding and those columns at home and fit them as well as this example... If you are going by the separated joints, etc. in making that judgement, 100+ years of neglect shrinks wood and this looks exactly like that...

I will concede that its probably homemade, but it certainly isn't a crappy job...