The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I've recently purchased two A250's. Both are oak. One has no mute ball, but has a volume control built into the reproducer and has a good cabinet with a good grill. The other has the lever "mute ball" that you pull up rather than left to right, but has a cabinet that is falling apart and a good grill but better bed plate.

Not sure which one to keep, an friend wants the other. Which volume control is less common? Interested in the feed back.

Can you please show us this mute ball arrangement that is pulled up rather than sideways, by posting a photo?

The reproducer damper is probably the rarer of the two, as it was soon superseded by the mute ball...

Bill

Wasn't the mute ball an accessory for the A250? If so, why not use it on the nicer machine? Yes, two tone controls are redundant, but from a historical standpoint these features are very interesting.

Honestly, if it were me, I would restore one with the best from both, you'll still have two machines, one to keep and one to sell.

Just my $.02, YMMV

Best,
Fran

My A250 also has a lift lever to control the mute ball.

Clay

Try to resist the temptation to put the better mechanism into the better cabinet. The A-series Diamond Disc machines have serial numbers on BOTH cabinet and mechanism. Once you separate them, chances are they'll never be together again.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:Try to resist the temptation to put the better mechanism into the better cabinet. The A-series Diamond Disc machines have serial numbers on BOTH cabinet and mechanism. Once you separate them, chances are they'll never be together again.

George P.

Yesm some restoration, (taking the best from both) can make sense but there can be problems with that too due to the large amount of variation within the model.

The mechanism of most of the A series machines have a serial number stamped just below the spindle that matches the serial number on the data plate. In some cases there’s a matching number penciled on the bottom of the platter. That same number is also usually stamped elsewhere inside the cabinet, usually behind and just underneath the horn on the backside.

There is also a number, closely matched but not the same, stamped on the neck of the horn and a date on the paper tag usually found on the inside of the back door. The dates that I’ve observed on those tags range from 11-20-12 to 8-20-14. Some of the oak models seem to have come from the finish on the edge of the platter while others seem to have been finished in nickel, while all other parts remained gold wash.

In addition, there are small variations in bedplate design between the earlier and later ones. The earliest had a more simple gold pin striping. Later that went to a more complicated gold & dark blue decoration. The later bedplates also had one or two less oiler holes on top.

And then those volume controls, first probably none, then that VC in the reproducer design that flopped and then at least two separate variations of the "muff ball" variety that could be retrofitted or later came as standard equipment.

After the A series it all gets much easier as there was no matching of serial nos that I know of and less variation generally. Enough for yet another book!

Valecnik wrote:

phonogfp wrote:Try to resist the temptation to put the better mechanism into the better cabinet. The A-series Diamond Disc machines have serial numbers on BOTH cabinet and mechanism. Once you separate them, chances are they'll never be together again.

George P.

Yesm some restoration, (taking the best from both) can make sense but there can be problems with that too due to the large amount of variation within the model.

The mechanism of most of the A series machines have a serial number stamped just below the spindle that matches the serial number on the data plate. In some cases there’s a matching number penciled on the bottom of the platter. That same number is also usually stamped elsewhere inside the cabinet, usually behind and just underneath the horn on the backside.

There is also a number, closely matched but not the same, stamped on the neck of the horn and a date on the paper tag usually found on the inside of the back door. The dates that I’ve observed on those tags range from 11-20-12 to 8-20-14. Some of the oak models seem to have come from the finish on the edge of the platter while others seem to have been finished in nickel, while all other parts remained gold wash.

In addition, there are small variations in bedplate design between the earlier and later ones. The earliest had a more simple gold pin striping. Later that went to a more complicated gold & dark blue decoration. The later bedplates also had one or two less oiler holes on top.

And then those volume controls, first probably none, then that VC in the reproducer design that flopped and then at least two separate variations of the "muff ball" variety that could be retrofitted or later came as standard equipment.

After the A series it all gets much easier as there was no matching of serial nos that I know of and less variation generally. Enough for yet another book!

Thank you both for correcting me!

I, myself, would pay very close attention to the minutia and be diligent with what, if anything, I could use and note the differences between the two, but I agree with both of you, better to NOT mix things up.

Best,
Fran

Valecnik wrote: The dates that I’ve observed on those tags range from 11-20-12 to 8-20-14.

Valecnik, that later date is really interesting! Thanks for the "tidbit".

Fran

fran604g wrote:

Valecnik wrote: The dates that I’ve observed on those tags range from 11-20-12 to 8-20-14.

Valecnik, that later date is really interesting! Thanks for the "tidbit".

Fran

Fran, when I said there could be a book, (or at least a lengthy article on the topic) I was not kidding. The tidbits are of a lot of interest to me too. By the way, in my earlier post I forgot to mention the variation in record storage, varying from 72 individual slots for 10 and 12 inch records earlier on to the individual paper dividers for 100 records with a couple of index cards near the end of the run.

As long as we are on the topic, here are a few pics showing a couple of variations in volume control, the later flat metal rod pulling up and down and the earlier, less common version managed by turning a big knob next to the bedplate. In the last two pics of a very late A250 you can see the volume control rod in front of the horn in one pic and see the handle peeking over in the top pic. In the earlier two, you can see the bend round rod system managed by a barely visible big knob that you turn clockwise to reduce volume.