The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

New to the forum, been around phonographs for a while thanks to my dad. Anyways, I picked this up at an auction over the weekend. I believe it is a Victor E bracket, tone arm, elbow, etc, grafted onto a Columbia AJ. They used the same holes as the handle to mount the Victor stuff, so I think the case is still in good shape.

I think the only real question I have is, how does the speed control on the governor work? I understand the screw to set the max speed, but what does the push/pull do?

Hello,
What an interesting combination of machines. You are very lucky that they used the same holes from the Columbia handle to mount the back bracket. You have a lot of valuable parts there. Depending on what you paid for it you could sell the separate Columbia and Victor parts on EBay and put the funds towards a complete original machine.
all the best
Pete

thatonejohn wrote:I think the only real question I have is, how does the speed control on the governor work? I understand the screw to set the max speed, but what does the push/pull do?

The push-pull button stops and starts the motor by means of a section of bent spring steel that has been broken off on yours. You can see what is remaining at the crotch of the speed control assembly.

Doug

It could be a Columbia BH? The push pull is your brake.

It looks like an AJ because it had a handle on the same side as the motor controls.
I am interested to see how the tracking turned out with a bracket coming from a machine with a slightly different size case. When the reproducer is down how close to the spindle does the needle socket fall? If the arc is not tangent within ⅜"+ of the center it would be quite hard on records. This is the most common case in conglomerations much more awkward looking than your find.

Darren

Springmotor70 wrote:It looks like an AJ because it had a handle on the same side as the motor controls.
I am interested to see how the tracking turned out with a bracket coming from a machine with a slightly different size case. When the reproducer is down how close to the spindle does the needle socket fall? If the arc is not tangent within ⅜"+ of the center it would be quite hard on records. This is the most common case in conglomerations much more awkward looking than your find.

Darren

Not all of the BH's had the handle. I have seen them both ways. Its hard to tell. It could be the 3rd model AJ, but it sure looks a lot like my BH? If it was a AJ, it will have the holes were the front mount for the horn support was. This is the only picture I have of my 3rd AJ before I cleaned it up.
EDIT: After looking at the first picture blown up, you can see where the front mount was. It is an AJ!

Perhaps this may help. I have this Columbia client motor torn apart waiting for a new spring. Screw in to set speed - push pull for motor on/off. It is shown in the off position. Hope this helps.

Bill K

Ok, I've taken a little closer look at it. I think the motor might be an AK judging by the stamped letters. Also, Darren, I think I measured the distance from the spindle correctly, comes in just at or under 3/8ths of an inch. And as Amberola noted, the holes are present for the front mount.

As far as parting this out via eBay, are correct, complete phonographs worth more than the sum of their parts? My dad says he has most of the complementary parts for an AJ and a model E. But if this motor is an AK, that throws out the idea of easily completing an AJ.

The third style AJ had a cabinet that was 10 ¼" square. The BH has a case similar to the AJ, but larger. The BH case is 11 ½" square. That will help you to determine which model the case belongs to.
Harvey Kravitz

Your picture of the reproducer intersecting with the spindle ( or nearly so ): looks like the reproducer / needle axis is nearly vertical... if the reproducer will rotate clockwise a few degrees ( should hit a stop ), the needle should be about 30 degrees away from vertical, and I'll bet that the tip of the needle will come darned-close to the spindle.

That looks like an early version of the Victor Exhibition, by the way.


Depending on what you want to do with the machine, you could go a couple of ways...


1) If you want an external horn machine to play records on, a "back-mount" machine is generally going to be more kind to your records than a front-mount. If the geometry of current set-up ( Victor back-bracket, arm, and horn ) are decent, and the machine plays well, then there you have it. The only down-side to this approach that I can see from your photos are the flaking governor weights, missing friction spring on the brake push-pull, and the fact that this is a single-spring motor.

2) If you want to restore it as a "correct" Columbia front-mount machine, then you'll have to scrounge-up the correct parts... time & $$. Plus, you'll have those "extra holes" to fill on the rear-face, where the Victor bracket is bolted-on.

3) If you don't care for options 1 or 2, you could part it out, and use the proceeds to get another / "better" (?) / more-intact machine.


I think you can always do option 3...


It strikes me as an interesting piece as-is... I wonder how long ago the "marriage" of parts took place ? ( A closer look at the first series of photos reveals that the cabinet finish is lighter, and not checked under the back-bracket... I think the Victor bracket,arm, and horn has been wedded to the Columbia base for a LONG time... )