The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I am very doubtful about these super-high speeds that sometimes I read reported concerning discs, and I suspect that these claims may come from people confused by the lexical similarity between "phonographs" and "gramophones".

Recently, on Wikipedia, the already unlikely top commercial speed of 120 RPM has been risen (with no apparent reason nor link to any literature) to 130 RPM.

There is indeed a general belief that Pathé made ultra-wide records (correct) that were to be played on special long-arm machines (correct) at the rotational speed of 120 RPM (hmmm...). Personally, I doubt that. I could never find anything (catalogues, pictures of records, machine's inscriptions) that could prove that this claim is actually true. On the contrary, Pathé affirmed on catalogues that their 50 cm records played 15 minutes: a length very unlikely to be reached if the record had to spin at 120 RPM, methinks.

Not even to mention 130 RPM, which seems a fancy figure with no connection with the real world.

Does anyone perhaps have any document (vintage ads, catalogues, record labels...) that can actually prove that the rotational speed of 120 RPM has been indeed commercially used?

Marco, there is a video on YouTube that is the definitive answer to your question. It clearly shows the paper sleeve for a 20" Pathé record and the suggested speed of 120-130 rpm. I have always wondered why Pathé allowed a speed variation of 10 rpm for their center-start records?

To see the sleeve and hear the record, go to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvbkSvGMJSQ

Thanks a lot, that finally sets the matter!

Lucky the owner of such record and of the machine on which to play it!

VintageTechnologies wrote:I have always wondered why Pathé allowed a speed variation of 10 rpm for their center-start records?

Don't know the answer but also for their "normal" record they suggested a speed of "90-100" RPM on their catalogues. Perhaps the recording speed was in its turn not very precise, so they decided to let the listeners set it according to their own taste, thus giving them just a suggested range.

[quote="Marco Gilardetti"]

"There is indeed a general belief that Pathé made ultra-wide records (correct) that were to be played on special long-arm machines (correct) at the rotational speed of 120 RPM (hmmm...). Personally, I doubt that. I could never find anything (catalogues, pictures of records, machine's inscriptions) that could prove that this claim is actually true. On the contrary, Pathé affirmed on catalogues that their 50 cm records played 15 minutes: a length very unlikely to be reached if the record had to spin at 120 RPM, methinks."



Pathé made two versions of their 50cm discs. The "Concert" played at 120rpm and the "Theatre" played at 60rpm, doubling the playing time. The "Theatre" discs are rare and a powerful motor is needed to play them.

Pathé was so frucking weird.

i have a 40cm Pathé in my collection (the more rare version than the 50cm) wich indeed plays at 120 rpm
i digitized it for my youtube channel and that isn't the easyest thing to do because...
1 Pathé of the large formats never seem to have the spindle hole perfectly centered
2 they are always slightly offset in thickness
so when playing at 120 rpm the arm and cardridge bob up and down and shoot left and right eventually dancing all over the disc ..impossible!!
but by playing it at a slow speed (33 rpm)it can be done then by digitally pitching to 120 the original sound is achieved

the 40 cm Pathé discs where made for the equally rare Pathé olophone with its 2 horns and reproducers to create the spacious effect while playing 2 reproducers in one groove the speed needed to be FAST! 120 to 130 rpm most of the 50cm Pathé play at a more normal Pathé speed of 90 to 100 rpm (with exeptions taken)
the theatre Pathé's play 50 to 70 rpm giving them a playing time of 10 to 20 minutes and that nearly 20 years before edison's long play discs
there are also small size Pathé discs that play at a low speed so that the normal Pathé sellections could be pantographed on them some of the 5'' Pathé discs play 2+ min

tino

Very interesting. Thanks everybody for the details and pictures!

Indeed Pathé was a fascinating brand that came up with unusual and striking items.

I have two 50cm Pathé Concert discs and the sleeves are marked 120 to 130 rpm.

As per the Youtube video, these records don't have a long duration, but the sound quality and volume were very impressive when I was able to play them - albeit not quite at the full speed, on a later Pathé No. 12 which was not really designed for them. I adjusted the governor range to give the maximum speed the motor was capable of, but it still wasn't quite enough.