The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Time to turn to the experts again.

Is there a uniform answer for this, or does it vary model by model?

To wit: Did Edison's company often use a bright, French finish for the interiors of the disc machines while using a shiny but more-muted satin finish on exteriors?

It is hard to figure this out looking at surviving machines, as one figures that the exteriors were exposed to the environment more (sunlight; pollutants in the air) than the interiors.

My machine is a Schubert Edisonic, as many of you know; I've been managing a thread to which many have contributed photos of their Edisonics. Most of those photos appear to show bright interior finishes and dulled exteriors. Again, how much of that reflects an original appearance as opposed to environmental degradation remains (for me) an open question.

Time to "fess up." My Edisonic cabinet is at a refinish place--with a fellow who has always done excellent work for me. He called to say that he's not going to work to get the exterior as "French finish" as the interior appears to be--and I am letting him have his way. With his practiced eye he might have decided that the exterior was never quite that bright to begin with (again, at least on the Edisonics).

Thanks!

Ralph

A tough question Ralph. Wish I had that time machine to go back and visit an Edison showroom.

My assumption, based on many comments from others I have seen over the years, is that in most cases what you see on the protected inside of the lid and around turntables, etc., is generally close to what the outside looked like originally. Exteriors fade over years of sun exposure and, to put it mildly, shellac does not age well when exposed to heat and light, not to mention the rigors of a century of household cleaning with who knows what.

Add to that that a filled-grain "piano" finish is just stunning on the outside of a mahogany cabinet when it is consistent with what you see on the inside. I had that done on a C-150 (whose original exterior finish was shot), and it gets more "oh, wow" admiration from visitors than many of the other higher end machines I have.

Clay

I agree with all that Clay has written. I'd be very, VERY surprised to learn that a manufacturer would have finished interiors and exteriors differently with regard to sheen. I've seen nothing in period catalogs to suggest this was ever done (other than the various Oriental finishes which used different colors on the interiors).

George P.

I agree, a machine would have had the same finish inside and out. Edison made some waxed type finishes and they were dull in both the outside an inside. A shiny mahogany would have been the same as well.

Larry

The finish on the outside oxidizes more than the finish that wasn't exposed to as much air and light. It also becomes somewhat murky with age because of the oxidizing and often times it's really amazing how nice the wood is under the finish. Especially when you get into later machines with doors over the whole front of the machine and burled or otherwise fancy veneer was used on the inside of the cabinet. I tried to buy a Victrola XVI that was still in it's packing crate new about 25 years ago from a guy that collected barbed wire. It was all wrapped in a sort of heavy brown paper inside the crate and I could only see the top of the lid since only the top of the crate was opened. It had a very nice piano finish everywhere that you could see anything of the cabinet. He wouldn't sell it at all and wasn't interested in talking about selling it. I gave him my phone number anyway and about a year or so later in 1993 he called me back. He had moved it down to his basement and after it flooded and was under water for a few days thought I might want it for parts. Before I hung up on him I remember thinking that his barbed wire collection was probably ok.
Most of that stuff was finished the same inside and out, expensive or custom ordered items may have been different. Later on when lacquer came out they would sometimes polish a burled panel or a piece of inlay to show it off a little better, but the early lacquers did not dry to a high gloss like varnish or shellac do, so the public was sold on a more satin or "oil rubbed" finish. Most of those old finishes were a mixture of shellac with another resin of some sort (gum or arabic) to make it a little tougher than just straight shellac. What they called an 8 hour varnish back in those days just meant that dust wouldn't settle into it anymore after 8 hours. It didn't mean it was dry then. Usually a week was given between coats, and shellac dries quickly, so it's understandable why it was so popular as a finish. However, if you go to the trouble of actually varnishing one of those things you will see why it was done on the more expensive machines. Varnish really shows off the wood grain and does so especially with Mahogany for whatever reason. The ribbon cut Mahogany Victor used in it's high end machines like the XVIII will ripple like water when you pass by them with real varnish on them. But it's a lot of work and takes about 3-4 months to build it all up and rub it out. I've done a few that way, and just don't have it in me anymore. You can't get rubbing varnish anymore either. They are trying to get rid of all the oil based finishes and so it's pretty much a thing of the past. Poly is not the same thing, it doesn't refract the light the same at all for whatever reason. And the water based finishes are all "dead". They also tend to get sticky in the summer if you live in a humid part of the country. Maybe the new water based finishes don't do that, but I tend not to go back and try something again after I've had one really bad experience!
Sorry about the book. Can you tell I like to refinish stuff? I'll shut up now.