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I noticed that the early Columbia, Victor, Zonophone, Berliner and other machines had leather elbows. Sometimes you have to have a reproduction elbow to complete an early machine. Some of these elbows were brown, and others black. Does anyone know which color is correct that correspond to these early machines?
Harvey Kravitz

Phonofreak wrote:I noticed that the early Columbia, Victor, Zonophone, Berliner and other machines had leather elbows. Sometimes you have to have a reproduction elbow to complete an early machine. Some of these elbows were brown, and others black. Does anyone know which color is correct that correspond to these early machines?
Harvey Kravitz

It's most likely that they used both - whatever leather of the correct thickness that was available....

Bill

Lucius1958 wrote:

Phonofreak wrote:I noticed that the early Columbia, Victor, Zonophone, Berliner and other machines had leather elbows. Sometimes you have to have a reproduction elbow to complete an early machine. Some of these elbows were brown, and others black. Does anyone know which color is correct that correspond to these early machines?
Harvey Kravitz

It's most likely that they used both - whatever leather of the correct thickness that was available....

Bill

I'm betting the same way as Bill. It's also possible that some of the old leather dyes have faded from black to brown (depending on their storage conditions over the years).

George P.

phonogfp wrote:

Lucius1958 wrote:

Phonofreak wrote:I noticed that the early Columbia, Victor, Zonophone, Berliner and other machines had leather elbows. Sometimes you have to have a reproduction elbow to complete an early machine. Some of these elbows were brown, and others black. Does anyone know which color is correct that correspond to these early machines?
Harvey Kravitz

It's most likely that they used both - whatever leather of the correct thickness that was available....

Bill

I'm betting the same way as Bill. It's also possible that some of the old leather dyes have faded from black to brown (depending on their storage conditions over the years).

George P.

I too have to agree with Bill and George. However, I can add that I notice all brass horns come with a brown leather elbow. I can't tell you why..??.

I have five machines with unquestionably original leather elbows:

--Berliner lever-wind: black horn, black elbow
--Zonophone A: brass horn, brown elbow
--Victor B: black horn, black elbow
--Berliner (French) in mahogany case: copper horn, brown elbow

So, that looks like a consistent pattern, brown with brass (or copper) and black with black. Except:

--Berliner coin-op (British): brass horn, black elbow

I guess I need a much larger sample to come up with a statistically valid result. But my gut feeling is that more often than not, black leather was used with black horns and brown leather with brass. Obviously not 100%, but that's the way I would lean if I were planning to use a reproduction.

there's also a slight difference in the brown ones
skin finish or polished leather
the skin finish is where you see the skin patterns and the polished version is like antique leather book covers very shiny


tino

tinovanderzwan wrote:there's also a slight difference in the brown ones
skin finish or polished leather
the skin finish is where you see the skin patterns and the polished version is like antique leather book covers very shiny


tino

I must say, I have never seen a "original" leather elbow (regardless of color or make) that has a "patent" leather type finish. Even my 1895 Berliner elbow (although shinny) shows the grain of the leather.
Perhaps maybe in Europe they were made differently...??.