The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I picked up this Columbia Ideal machine recently and have a question. Once I grind off the plumbing should the taper tube support be painted black, or is the nickel plating correct?

I cannot advise you as to the correct finish, but if you remove the extra plumbing you may be left with a large hole in the support which could be very tricky to repair.

This could have been an amateur attempt to create a "Day or Night" machine, where an external horn was used during the day and an internal one after dark, to avoid upsetting the neighbours. Genuine machines of that type are quite rare.

If the machine was mine I would be tempted to fit an external horn and keep it as a curiosity.

Are those teeth-marks from a Stillson wrench at the top of the "Addition" ?

( If so, then I would bet the addition is indeed of plumbing origins )



Update: According to Baumbach's Columbia Disc Phonograph book, the original catalog illustration used for the entry on the Columbia "Ideal" shows the back-bracket to be in the same finish as the tapering tone-arm, eg: nickel.

Before excising that elbow, you might want to perform a "breath-test", and see if they actually put a hole through the back-bracket, or if that "Ell" is just a "dummy"... if there's a hole, you're going to need to figure-out a way to close it up....

If the addition does in fact turn out to be a dummy, just stick a bunch of flowers in it

Oh it's plumbing alright. The inside is threaded. It came with a nice slip in horn and elbow. Not sure what it's for, but it doesn't look domestic. The elbow has a rivet on the inside which hooks into the horn like a backwards victor mount. I haven't checked to see if they drilled (or burned given the enthusiasm of the weld) a hole into the horn. The reproducer looks a little too modern for the machine, but who knows? I have a few more machined to get to before I start in on this one. The motor has been assembled incorrectly (pawl is in backwards so it won't stay wound) and I need to dig up a reproducer.

Looks like a Client machine- and I think that later looking reproducer might be correct in that case.

I'm pretty certain that the reproducer is proper for that machine. I would cut off the Siamese twin however. If it has a hole, maybe it's not too large or irregular so that you could thread in a pipe plug, (keeping the plumbing theme going), and grind it down flush. Otherwise, I've had very good experiences using epoxy putty to fill in hacked up parts. If that's the repair method, I would then paint the back casting to hide the repair. Honestly, I've never seen a plated one.

Pretty sure this is a Columbia "Ideal" Grafonola, which was a $35 machine introduced in 1912. The reproducer in the photos appears to be the Columbia "Concert Grand" reproducer, which preceded (?) the #5 and #6 reproducers.


I don't believe Columbia client-machines had dust rings around the turn-table ?

Frank is correct. This is a Grafonola Ideal. Yes, the dust ring is correct. The back bracket was originally nickel plated. Since the back bracket is damaged, I would look for the more common black bracket and have the paint stripped off and nickel plate it. These machines are quit scarce and seldom turn up. In my years of collecting, I've seen maybe 3 or 4 for sale.
Harvey Kravitz

Maybe that extra plumbing was designed as a candle-holder?