The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-EDISON-COLUMB ... 418c4c1981

Again, someone saying ohhhh I got some home recordings for SHAVING!!!! As a historian this attitude has got to STOP!!!!! To me a commercial black wax recording while good and interesting, and entertaining, was a mass marketed item hundreds and sometimes hundreds of thousands of copies made, Still being made of metallic soap, somewhat difficult to find today. A home recording, while not great sonically, is of much more historical significance, they are not easy to find in any condition, and are a link to our past. What is your thoughts. I think it is wrong.

It's akin to burning 100+ year old photographs or diaries - sending these voices to the grave a second time.

Shawn, I understand your exasperation and frustration, especially given the huge amount of time and energy you put into the production of new cylinders that should make the shaving of old ones unnecessary. I feel the same way you do when I see something like this, or a restorable machine being parted out. Viewing it charitably, though, I'm guessing the seller simply doesn't understand the value of these records as they are. Each one is a unique part of the early history of recorded sound, no matter what condition it's in, what its content is, or how poorly it may play. Every one that's lost is gone for good. It's a shame that the seller has listed them this way, but the problem is a lack of understanding, and the only solution is education and information. Often when I see an eBay seller doing something that I think is ill-advised, I'll contact them and as gently as I can manage tell them why I think so. Sometimes my two cents are rejected, sometimes I'll get a note of thanks, most often I'll get no response at all. But I need to think that whatever I've said will at least have been said and read, and may be enough food for thought to keep the seller from doing it again. One contact might not mean much to a determined seller, but multiple contacts might have a stronger effect. Though there are only about twelve hours left in this particular auction at this point, I will send the seller a note, and perhaps other forum members will too.

Looking through the seller's other listings, it seems apparent that he/she doesn't specialize in items like these, and probably knows just enough to know that these could be shaved and re-recorded. Hopefully -- hopefully! -- someone interested in buying these cylinders would understand their historical significance and will buy them with no intention of shaving them, so all is not necessarily lost here. That the seller has listed them for shaving doesn't mean that they have to be shaved, and I really hope they won't be.

I sent a note expressing my concerns, and received the following reply from the seller:

THANK YOU for your email & interest in these antique brown wax cylinder records. You are correct. I should not have said 'for shaving' in the title of the listing. Since I started selling cylinder records on eBay in 1998 I have had many preservationist customers. I have always been happy to be part of their efforts. I did not look at these 5 home recordings in the same way as I've looked at professional recordings from the late 1800s & early 1900s. From now on I will. Thanks again for the information.

This is one of those instances where a kindly-phrased message is received by someone with an open mind, with good results. As a disc-only guy, I'm not bidding on the cylinders, but based on the response I'll be more than happy if I have an opportunity to do business with this seller in the future. Maybe someone on the forum will win and save these.

Shawn & Cody -

I very much agree that home recordings are unique windows on the everyday world of the past. Years and years ago, I sought after blanks that were covered in mold specifically for shaving and re-recording. I remember getting one group of cylinders from somebody that was practicing the flute. They all had started out as dark brown wax but several were completely white with mold. I ended up transferring all of them to digital files. While transferring, I decided to keep many of the cylinders that had some actual signal on them, even though they were mostly moldy. Of course the completely moldy ones were nothing more than "white noise". Those were the ones that I eventually shaved.

I'd like to think if they were channel-rimmed or had some other provenance I would have preserved them as-is. With the availability of new-made quality blanks, this should be less and less of an issue for collectors. Certainly, your efforts to raise awareness to the issue will cause more of us to think harder and longer before we take irreversible steps. I'm still not sure if I will not shave a hopelessly moldy run-of-the-mill cylinder after transfer, but I do applaud your efforts at educating us as to what we lose if we don't pay attention.

Regards,
Martin

martinola wrote:Shawn & Cody -

I very much agree that home recordings are unique windows on the everyday world of the past. Years and years ago, I sought after blanks that were covered in mold specifically for shaving and re-recording. I remember getting one group of cylinders from somebody that was practicing the flute. They all had started out as dark brown wax but several were completely white with mold. I ended up transferring all of them to digital files. While transferring, I decided to keep many of the cylinders that had some actual signal on them, even though they were mostly moldy. Of course the completely moldy ones were nothing more than "white noise". Those were the ones that I eventually shaved.

I'd like to think if they were channel-rimmed or had some other provenance I would have preserved them as-is. With the availability of new-made quality blanks, this should be less and less of an issue for collectors. Certainly, your efforts to raise awareness to the issue will cause more of us to think harder and longer before we take irreversible steps. I'm still not sure if I will not shave a hopelessly moldy run-of-the-mill cylinder after transfer, but I do applaud your efforts at educating us as to what we lose if we don't pay attention.

Regards,
Martin

i would love to have the mp3's of those for my digital sound archive!

Shaving *any* genuine home recording made during
the original era when cylinders were the current
technology is akin to burning the ancient library
at Alexandria!

As Shawn says, it is not only foolhardy and extremely
short-sighted to do so, but also totally, completely
unnecessary seeing as how there are at least three well
known manufacturers of perfectly good brown wax blanks
who provide more than plenty of them for use now.

(see my website for details about one of these manufacturers )

Shaving old brown wax wipes out history.

Chuck

I agree with everyone, and am glad the seller apologized for the wording.