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A short while ago, I posted a thread discerning the differences of the correct leather elbows for early front mount machines. Now I want to pick your brains as to front mount leather elbow type horns are correct for either a Columbia or Victor. I know the sizes are 14" with a 9 ½ bell and 20" with an 11 ½" bell. Is there a way to tell which is correct for either a Victor or Columbia? Were they made by the same manufacturer? To me, they look exactly the same. Any ideas?
Harvey Kravitz

Hi Harvey,
My experience working on horns is:

Thus far no descernable difference between 14" long, 9.5" bell for Columbia and Victor supplied horns. When I work on them it is my perception that the Victor ones are marginally more substantial, ie to me it feels a little more robust (weight) but not heavy.I have not seen any consistancy to "Patent applied for" stamping my experience again is that fewer 9.5" dia horns have the stamp than those that do not. But thus far I cannot trace it to a particular brand.

Regarding longer horns there is a difference that is noticable: Columbia is 19" long and Victors are 21" long. Bell diameters are virtually identical but the Victor when side by side, or placed on a machine - those two inches change the whole presentation of the look. The Columbias have a "steeper" barrel and the Victor appears "slender" when mounted.

Now there is nothing wrong with either horn on a machine until you know you get the "right one". I went for years with a Columbia on my EJ Monarch until I came across the longer Victor. Here is a picture of them side by side - the Victor is longer. John

John, Thank you so much for your reply. I have always have been wondering about this. It's these little details that I like to find out to have my machines correct.
Harvey Kravitz

Thanks John. This is excellent information.

George P.

Just to add to this.....both my early Johnson horns have no "PAF" stamp. However, I have seen Victor horn's with a threaded end and late rear mount with a VTM decal with the "PAF" stamp.