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Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:49 am
by ambrola
This is the F that was in the A case when I bought it. Got the right case and reproducer, but need a Tizit. I still can't get the 2;4 minute working good. It thumps when you push the clutch in. Anyone have any suggestions?
Triumph F.jpg
Triumph F2.jpg

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:54 am
by gramophone78
[quote="Amberola"]This is the F that was in the A case when I bought it. Got the right case and reproducer, but need a Tizit. I still can't get the 2;4 minute working good. It thumps when you push the clutch in. Anyone have any suggestions?

Yes, contact George at [email protected].

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 9:56 am
by fmblizz
Nice setup..

blizz

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:54 am
by ambrola
fmblizz wrote:Nice setup..

blizz
You would think there is 100 people in this forum that knows the answer. I only want to know, Does the mandrel shaft pass through the belt pulley? I think it does, but this one is very, very tight. I could use a fine tooth file and make it fit, but I surely don't want to harm this machine.

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:06 am
by ambrola
fmblizz wrote:Nice setup..

blizz
Thanks Gary.

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:11 am
by Phonolair
[/quote]
Does the mandrel shaft pass through the belt pulley? I think it does, but this one is very, very tight. I could use a fine tooth file and make it fit, but I surely don't want to harm this machine.[/quote]

Check for answer in TIPS & TRICKS where you have it posted also.
As far as the tight mandrel and shaft it could be several things but from your pictures I can see the right side of your mandrel and shaft has a lot of damage and the mandrel is on the shaft to far. The shaft end and mandrel end should be almost flush. So your mandrel is out of position changing the spacing between the new support bearing and the left side of the mandrel. The new support bearing could also be out of position. There could be other problems but this is a start, good luck.

Best Regards, Larry

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:23 am
by ambrola
Phonolair wrote:
Does the mandrel shaft pass through the belt pulley? I think it does, but this one is very, very tight. I could use a fine tooth file and make it fit, but I surely don't want to harm this machine.[/quote]

Check for answer in TIPS & TRICKS where you have it posted also.
As far as the tight mandrel and shaft it could be several things but from your pictures I can see the right side of your mandrel and shaft has a lot of damage and the mandrel is on the shaft to far. The shaft end and mandrel end should be almost flush. So your mandrel is out of position changing the spacing between the new support bearing and the left side of the mandrel. The new support bearing could also be out of position. There could be other problems but this is a start, good luck.

Best Regards, Larry[/quote]
Thanks Larry. The mandrel actually came off when I was hitting it with a hammer and a block of wood. I need to clean that up and glue it back. I really want to solve the clutch first. I think the shaft meets the dog at the clutch end. Therefor, it would have to pass through the belt pulley. It is possible the shaft got hit on that end causing it to swell just a little. I want to be sure before I do something I can't take back, if you know what I mean.

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 11:29 am
by De Soto Frank
I'll have a go...

Very nice machine, for starters, and with a repeater too ? :shock: :)


Until you can get your hands on a Tiz-It, how about a 45* copper Ell from your local plumbing supply ? You'll need a 1-½ inch long rubber "sleeve" to connect the Ell to the reproducer, but should do the job.


As for the "Thumping when the clutch is pushed in", I am taking that to mean when the clutch is set to play 2-minute cylinders ?

My Home D was doing this, until I adjusted the alignment of the mandrel / upper pulley, etc.

The mandrel shaft does indeed pass through the feed-screw. It should not be a "sloppy" fit, but neither should there be any binding.

If you haven't already done so, I would suggest taking apart the mandrel & feed-screw, and cleaning off all old lubricant, dust, gunk, including the center bearing and the left-end pivot bearing. Then lightly oil the bearing points, and reassemble, and see if there's any improvement.

If you disassemble the mandrel / feedscrew, Clean the mandrel shaft with solvent and a soft cloth, then examine the mandrel shaft where it runs through the feed-screw, examining the shaft for "bright spots" that might suggest high-spots ?

Also inspect each end of the feed-screw tube for burrs or distortion ( egg-shape ) that might cause a bind.

If you see no "bright spots", or pits or burrs, try fitting the feed-screw back of the mandrel shaft, and see if there's any binding...

Unless you find a large burr or a heavy / deep nick that has raised "shoulders" on either side, I would not use a file on any of this.

To clean-up slight roughness, or polish-down a high-spot, I would suggest using 400 or 600 -grit Wet-Dry abrasive paper, such as is used for auto body work. You can find it in 800 and 1200 grits for finer polishing. You might use a tiny bit of light oil to "wet" the surface being dressed.

If the feed-screw sleeve / mandrel shaft show no signs of injury or spot-tightness, but still seems to be a really tight fit on the mandrel shaft( read: binding), you might try wiping the mandrel shaft with light oil, then sprinkling it with Bon-Ami scouring powder ( no substitutes ! ), assemlbing the two parts, and "working them", both rotating and sliding the two parts.

After a few mintues, rinse-out the Bon-Ami with solvent, and see how the pieces fit/ work. This type of polishing is known as "lapping" - dressing two ( or more )working parts by working them together with an abrasive medium in between.

I would not get carried away with lapping stuff... it's REAL easy to go from "it still feels a bit tight" to "Damn - now it's too loose !"

When the machine is running in 2-minute, the feed-screw / mandrel should be locked-up as one unit, so the clutch itself should not be part of the problem.

The lateral ( side-to-side ) alignment of the mandrel assembly is determined by the positioning of the center-bearing, then the left-end pivot is installed with the slightest amount of end-clearance, so that it does not cause binding.

Make sure the belt is not dragging on a pulley flange or has any lumps that might be causing the "thump" ( although, if this were the case, it should thump on both two and four minute settings... )

Start with careful observation, cleaning, and re-lube, then go from there...

Good Luck !

:coffee:

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:30 pm
by ambrola
Thank you so much. Now I know that the mandrel shaft should go through the belt pulley, I know that is the problem. I will clean her up and let you know the results. I didn't want to do anything until I was sure. It is too nice to mess up. I also know these 2,4 minute machines are finicky. You just have to align everything right. :lol: :P

Re: Triumph Model F

Posted: Thu Jan 15, 2015 12:37 pm
by De Soto Frank
Now I'm afraid to touch the 2 / 4 on my Homes... :oops:

:mrgreen: