The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I've placed a want ad for an HMV 460 Lumiere and was wondering if those with experience could offer
up some advice on what to look for and what to avoid?

They're quite rare here in Canada, so I contacted two dealers in the UK. One dealer had one and was going to take pictures but sold it that day, the other, Ian Maxted was incredibly helpful and I was fortunate enough to converse with him at great length.

If you can also offer up some advise on who I can contact to track one of these down, it would be greatly appreciated as well.

Cheerio.

Try Guido on http://www.phonograph.nl/, you will pay top price but he sells high quality machines.

The things to look closely if you can are
- condition of the diaphragm, check if there are tears, or mold
- flatness of the diaphragm, its structure is aluminum and can be distorted if manhandled
- presence of the brake on the 460, it is a bespoke part and replacements are very difficult to find
- look at the bottom or ask for photos and make sure that the closure panel is there. Not a catastrophe if is not, but it prevents dust and cobwebs from accumulating inside.
- check for the rod linking the needle holder and the center of the diaphragm, it is made of wood and if broken or damaged you will end up with a mute Lumière.
- the external finish of the 460 is originally a shiny mirror-like varnish (the French ones are different), so scratches and defects will become very apparent

I´d add that they came in mahoganny and oak. The oak ones don´t have the shiny surface, they have a wax based polish. They usually don´t look so beat up either and are easier to restore. It´s a question of taste of course, myself I prefere the oak! I´d say they aren´t really common anywhere... only a couple of hundred of each woodtype were left on the market according to the HMV book published last year.

Thank you gentlemen.

The French ones are the ones with the backward tilted motor boards? I thought these models had entirely different
cabinets as well and had no similarity to the 460. Are you saying there was a French 460?

The french ones are different both due to sloping motorboard, different case style and the fact that the needle was in the middle of the pleat rather than on the edge -> ie with the 460 the gold diasphram is standing 90 degrees to the record wheras the French version it is parallel to the record.

Model 461 was created from left over 460 cases and looked like a large version of a suitcase machine.

There was also the model 510 which was like the 460 but built as an entire floor standing cabinet.

For the 460, HMV also made a record cabinet with the same style of veneering.

There were also radio speakers built on the same principle.

Thank you very much for the information. I know very little about these machines so this is incredibly helpful.

Vince,
I have a Lumiere 460, although it's not for sale.
As has already been mentioned the diaphragms are very prone to damage and a perfect one is pretty well impossible to find.
Finish of the gold plated fittings is important as these are difficult to restore.
I have attached some photos of mine, and feel free to ask any questions.
Regards,
Alistair.

Brilliant!

Thank you so much for posting these pictures, they're extremely helpful.
What is the purpose of the two brake levers on the right side of the turntable?

Let me know if you should ever decide to rid yourself of that horrible monstrosity,
I'll do my best to take it off your hands.

(it really is beautiful, i love the oak veneer!)

Vince,
The front lever is the normal on-off brake.
The back one is to set the automatic brake to suit the particular record being played.
The needle is placed at the start the run-off groove and the lever brought forward, bringing the back end of the lever into contact with a rod on the "tone arm". When the motor is running this rod trips the brake at the end of the record.
Regards,
Alistair.

Would this one fit the bill ? Ebay now ended but presumably could still be bought ?

161575373988