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Last week I posted a couple of "help" postings in the Tips & Tricks Dept., with regard to working on Orthophonic sound boxes (OSB), and had some very helpful replies, including a link to MicaMonster's article on rebuilding the OSB.


I took a HUGE leap of faith, and plunged into working on the OSB from my Great-Grandmother's VE 8-12X, which seems to have one of the most pristine pot-metal OSBs that I have seen anywhere. Not a trace of pot-metal disease anywhere ( keeping fingers crossed on this ! ).

In spite of that, it was getting raspy and buzzy on loud passages, and in general, I wanted it to function at its full potential.


In the future, I hope to put together an article on the Victor OSB, its various incarnations, problems, and service techniques.

In the case of Great Grandmas', with everything generally being in decent shape, and never having been worked-on since it left Camden in 1927, I elected to only do what seemed necessary: open and clean the bearing boxes for the needle-bar, replace the fossilized rubber, and install/lube new bearings.

I did not unsolder the needle-bar from the diaphragm. I have other OSBs that will be Guinea-pigs for that work.

I did have the spanner-ring off, and the back plate out - the castings all look good. I carefully cleaned around the gasket area of the diaphragm with a Q-tip & Ronsonol, then put that part of things back together.

The needle-bar bearings ( first style, with rubber cushions and steel washers ), were fossilized and a bit rusty. I removed the cap: on one-side (opposite the thumb-screw), the rubber cushion fossil came-out attached to the cover, on the Thumb-screw side, the rubber stayed in the bearing sleeve.

I carefully fidgeted the washer and eight bearing balls out of each side, and placed them in separate dishes.

The bearing sleeves came-out with gentle prodding from the center of the needle-bar area.

I cleaned-out the bearing journal areas with Q-tip and Ronsonol, then polished with Q-tip and Liberty Metal Polish.

It would appear that the journals on the early-type needle-bar are brass / bronze. They cleaned-up well.


The bearing sleeves seem to be brass with nickel-plating on the outside. They got the similar Q-tip treatment, first with Ronsonol, then with Liberty Polish. There were still some dark spots inside, so I took some 1000-grit Wet/Dry autobody paper, rolled it into a tube, and carefully polished the inside of the sleeves, then final-polished with Liberty Polish. I did not want any little lumps of grease / rubber / corrosion that would impede the rolling action of the bearings.

The steel separator washers had little rust-dots corresponding to the contact areas with the bearing balls on one side, and general rust where the rubber contacted on the cushion side. Again, Q-tip / Ronsonol / Liberty, and then the 1000-Grit wet/dry, and final polish with Liberty on a pencil eraser.

Now it was time to reassemble.

In 2001, I had gotten an "Orthophonic overhaul kit" from APSCO, consisting of a gelatin capsule containing (20) steel bearing balls, and about a ½-inch length of rubber tubing to make new bearing cushions from. If there was anything else to the kit, it has since gone-missing.

I have read that reinstalling the bearing balls has driven other people to madness... I don't doubt this.

Suffice it say, I eventually got everything back in place, and the new cushions cut and installed, and covers back in place.

I did a "puff-test" on the diaphragm ( gently puffing from the mounting hub ), and all seemed tight. Sadly, I do not seem to have a new mounting bushing, so that will come later, whether ready-made, or one of Wyatt's DIY silicone jobs.

I marched over the Great-Grandma's 8-12, intalled the OSB, fitted a loud-tone needle, and then went looking for a good Ortho record to play - one that featured a pretty full range of frequencies, timbres and volumes.

Nothing suitable seemed to be in reach.

Finally, in a sort of desperation, my eyes fell on Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3 in D Minor - the infamous "Rach 3" ! Performed by Rachmaninoff, and Philadelphia Orchestra, conducted by Eugene Ormandy, Victor Catalog # M-710.

Now, you experts will probably tell me that this album is "too late to play on an acoustic phonograph- it'll chew-up those records!". You're probably right, but I couldn't find anything else at the moment. I was confident that this recording would certainly give the OSB a thorough work-out, through the full range of frequencies captured by the technology of the era, and would offer a full range of dynamic contrasts as well.

Well, I have to say, the OSB did well. "Rocky" and the Philly Orchestra threw everything they had at it, and there were only a couple instances where the OSB showed any sign of distortion, and I'm not so sure this wouldn't be present even played-back on an electrical machine - the music gets that big. I think I had the rubber bearing cushions cut a tad too long, and this might have created a bit too much preload on the needle-bar bearings, so today I trimmed both cushions ever so slightly, so that now the outer edges of the bearing covers nearly touch the cover.


Next step is to replace the mounting bushing... I'm sure this will make a huge improvement.

So far, I'm pleased with the results... nobody died, nobody went to ER, nobody had to be committed to the Sanitarium.

That said, working on the OSB is damned delicate work, and requires a quiet environment, and lots of patience.


Thanks to all who responded to my other threads asking for guidance - the responses were most helpful, and truly appreciated.

Thanks for the update. I'm sure it will not only be helpful to others but will give us all the confidence to take on such a task.

blizz

De Soto Frank wrote: Finally, in a sort of desperation, my eyes fell in Rachmaninoff Concerto No. 3 in D Minor - the infamous "Rach 3" ! Performed by Rachmaninoff, and Philadelphia Orchestra, conducted by Eugene Ormandy, Victor Catalog # M-710.

Now, you experts will probably tell me that this album is "too late to play on an acoustic phonograph- it'll chew-up those records!". You're probably right, but I couldn't find anything else at the moment. I was confident that this recording would certainly give the OSB a thorough work-out, through the full range of frequencies captured by the technology of the era, and would offer a full range of dynamic contrasts as well.

Well, I have to say, the OSB did well. "Rocky" and the Philly Orchestra threw everything they had at it, and there were only a couple instances where the OSB showed any sign of distortion, and I'm not so sure this wouldn't be present even played-back on an electrical machine - the music gets that big. I think I had the rubber bearing cushions cut a tad too long, and this might have created a bit too much preload on the needle-bar bearings, so today I trimmed both cushions ever so slightly, so that now the outer edges of the bearing covers nearly touch the cover.

Interesting. I have the earlier Rach 2 with Rocky, and Stokie cond. the Phila., Victor album DM-58. I doesn't sound so great on my XI, which in general is not at its best with the large orchestral repertory (but sounds terrific on jazz and big band stuff, IOW small ensembles of all sorts, incl. classical). There's just too much sonic information on a symphonic recording for the early machines to handle with the kind of clarity, dynamic and frequency response that the Orthos can yield.

Congrats on your successful rebuild of the box!

I would love to hear that earlier recording with Rocky & Stokie... will have to scour You-tube.

Congrats Frank!

It'll get easier and easier with more practice, and since you have half a dozen left to do, people will be sending you theirs
when you're done.

I hope you try MicaMonster's method for fashioning your connector with the white gasket tubing and black silicone, using the brass insert from your old connector. It's really not difficult at all, and it costs nearly nothing except for the silicone. If you try it, make sure the brass insert fits the tone arm end snug, but not too tight before installing it in the silicone. One of mine was too tight, and I pulled the connection apart try to get it off later. It was easy to redo, however.
Be sure the pin inside the brass connector is in the proper position. It should line up with the upper screw that tightens against a conventional rubber connector.
The hardest part is waiting 24 hours to let the silicone harden! Bob

barnettrp21122 wrote:I hope you try MicaMonster's method for fashioning your connector with the white gasket tubing and black silicone, using the brass insert from your old connector. It's really not difficult at all, and it costs nearly nothing except for the silicone. If you try it, make sure the brass insert fits the tone arm end snug, but not too tight before installing it in the silicone. One of mine was too tight, and I pulled the connection apart try to get it off later. It was easy to redo, however.
Be sure the pin inside the brass connector is in the proper position. It should line up with the upper screw that tightens against a conventional rubber connector.
The hardest part is waiting 24 hours to let the silicone harden!

The attachment Orthophonic silicone connector-MicaMonster design.jpg is no longer available

Bob

I use MicaMonster's silicon method all the time! It works so much better than the reproduction flange gaskets that are made of neoprene. I have found that all of the reproducers I rebuilt using this method distort less. Here is a picture of a potmetal Victrola number 4 A reproducer I rebuilt a while back using this method.

CONGRATULATIONS De Soto Frank!

I too, was wondering how it was going (I think you are quite a bit braver than I am).

Very interesting reading about your progress and success, sir!

(and I play late 78's all the time on my Panatropes and have yet to have an issue with the records).

I just had my tech rebuild my Orthophonic reproducer from the Credenza I bought a few months ago, but won't get the rest of the phonograph until the CAPS show in Buena Park, CA in August. He also had some trouble getting the ball bearings in. They kept falling out. I suggested he try holding them in place with a magnet. Worked! Hey, Mr. Grumpy, I never would have figured that you looked like that! Calm down a little will ya?

marcapra wrote: I never would have figured that you looked like that! Calm down a little will ya?

I'm go CRAZY for Orthophonics