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I realize that tho play any 2m wax with even a Model H would wear it out, much less a Diamond B. However, due to the obviously much more robust nature of an Indestructible cylinder, can it be played with a heavy, 4m reproducer such as a diamond B for better sound, or is that still highly inadvisable?

I wouldn't do that. Stick with the right reproducer with the right record.I think the heavy weight of the Diamond Model B could damage the Indestructible reproducers. I wouldn't take the chance.
Harvey Kravitz

Alright. That's why I asked.

I second what Harvey said. A single pass probably would not damage the record, but I think repeated playing would.

A diamond B reproducer can play a 2 minute celluloid just fine. Provided you have the phonograph set to two minute gearing.

Columbia phonographs with four minute gearing had reproducers with a stepped stylus halfway between 2/4 minute size.

Of course this is just my opinion as I have a small selection of two minute celluloid records. So they don't get played much.

I guess the real question is this... why would Edison make a Diamond B reproducer for a 2/4 minute machine conversion? Obviously, you can't play 2 minute wax with a Diamond B and you can't play 2 minute Indestructibles with a C reproducer, so what exactly were you supposed to play celluloid 2 minute cylinders with?

I've been having no trouble using a Model C for my (single) Columbia Indestructible. But I feel like it would not be harmed by a diamond B which adds sound quality to the mix as well as convenience if I have it mixed into a queue of BAs.

Curt A wrote:I guess the real question is this... why would Edison make a Diamond B reproducer for a 2/4 minute machine conversion? Obviously, you can't play 2 minute wax with a Diamond B and you can't play 2 minute Indestructibles with a C reproducer, so what exactly were you supposed to play celluloid 2 minute cylinders with?

Holy smokes!

First, why can't you play 2 minute Indestructibles with a C Reproducer?

Second, Edison didn't make celluloid 2 minute cylinders (except very briefly for the Mexican market) and certainly didn't encourage anyone to buy 2 minute celluloid cylinders from other manufacturers.

Finally, the Diamond B was introduced with the introduction of Blue Amberol cylinders in late 1912. By then, Edison wasn't making any 2 minute cylinders (except as noted above). The idea by late 1912 was NOT to convert your Phonograph to play both types of record, but to convert it to play Blue Amberols exclusively. This is why very late Standards, Homes, Triumphs and Firesides play only 4 minute cylinders.

The inescapable fact remains that the stylus tip of a Diamond B (or an H for that matter) is half the size of a 2 minute stylus. That means the weight (already heavier on the Diamond B)is concentrated on half the surface area. In other words, at least double the stylus pressure of a 2 minute reproducer. That's not a good recipe for record preservation.

I echo the suggestion of earlier posters who recommend using the appropriate reproducer with any particular record. With all respect, it puzzles me why any informed collector would fail to do this.

George P.

phonogfp wrote:I echo the suggestion of earlier posters who recommend using the appropriate reproducer with any particular record. With all respect, it puzzles me why any informed collector would fail to do this.

George P.

Well, I haven't actually done it. In fact, I don't even own a Diamond B reproducer yet at all. I guess it's just a habit of mine to question established methods and conventions.

As long as your Indestructible Cylinders and your Diamond "B" stylus are in good shape, you should have no problem using a Diamond "B" to play 2min Indestructible cylinders.


The cylinders are made of the same material that the 4min Indestructible cylinders are, and we never question using a Diamond "B" on 4min Indestructibles.

That being said:
I usually record my 2min Indestructible cylinders using an "O" reproducer on the 2min stylus setting.
Occasionally I will record a 2min Indestructible that is worn with a Diamond "B",
(Somehow it can get down to the undamaged part of the groove and sound better to my ears).

I almost always record 2min and 4min U.S.Everlasting/Lakeside cylinders using the Diamond "B" reproducer.
(It just sounds better to my ears. I think that the U.S./Lakeside surface is a harder formulation of celluloid?)

Just My 2 cents, Bob S.

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