The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

What do fellow collectors think about Starr Phonographs? Should they be classified as Name brand or off brand machines? It appears that the machines use Heinemann motors and hardware, just like many off-brand machines. However, we have to bear in mind that Starr was part of Gennett Records which produced many hot jazz recording sessions.

I saw a Starr on E-bay for $650.00 and considering of bidding. Not too sure about these machines.

I don't really consider Starr phonographs as an offbrand, but I think of them as more of a secondary brand because they are actually great machines but I wouldn't want one in my collection because it's not one of the big three Edison, Victor, and Columbia.

I put a Starr phonograph in the same league as a Star automobile. They might be well made items, but collector interest is very low and if you pay $650 for one, you may never get your money back should you decide to sell. The Starr is in a similar position to the Cheney, the Puritan, and the Sonora. But they are higher than machines like the Vitanola, the Magnola, or the Operollo!

Weren't there two "Star" / "Starr" talking machines ?


And if so, wasn't one of them made by Hawthorne & Sheble ?

If my choices are name brand or off brand, a Starr is an off brand machine. I agree that there is not much collector interest unless there is something really unusual about the cabinet or finish. Marc mentions that he considers the Starr in the came category as the Cheney, Puritan, or Sonora. Both the Puritan and Sonora companies offered interesting uprights with swelled sides and I do think there is collector interest in those cabinet styles. Jerry Blais

Any brands outside of the big three...Edison, Victor, Columbia are considered "off brand" names. These companies generally had others supply them with components like motors, etc....in order to sell machines.

Whereas the big three were self sufficient in production.

I would have to include Brunswick in the name brand category. To be called a name brand you have to have a widely produced and collected record associated with that brand, and Brunswick certainly excelled in record production in the 1920s along with Victor, Edison, and Columbia.

marcapra wrote:I would have to include Brunswick in the name brand category. To be called a name brand you have to have a widely produced and collected record associated with that brand, and Brunswick certainly excelled in record production in the 1920s along with Victor, Edison, and Columbia.

I would have to agree, Brunswick also used their own designs and motors.
I would also add, Cheney was another make that made their own motors.

Victrolacollector wrote:What do fellow collectors think about Starr Phonographs? Should they be classified as Name brand or off brand machines? It appears that the machines use Heinemann motors and hardware, just like many off-brand machines. However, we have to bear in mind that Starr was part of Gennett Records which produced many hot jazz recording sessions.

I saw a Starr on E-bay for $650.00 and considering of bidding. Not too sure about these machines.

Starr used some Heinemann motors in late production, but they also had their own style of motor, as well as their own specific tone arm design. Starr machines sell for more than many of the other lesser known brands because of their assist ion with Gennett Records. The tone arms and reproducers are die case, but of excellent design and quality, and seldom suffer form the pot metal troubles of the other "off brand" or Columbia machines. Their extremely scarce, not to say rare "Isosonic" machines used the stylus bar, diaphragm and pivot assembly of the Brunswick Exponential Panatrope installed in a die cast case that looked a great deal like that of an Orthophonic reproducer. These can perform amazingly well, but are seldom found in usable condition.

That walnut machine on eBay is a nice one, and can play very well, but it is not in the best condition. If you must hav a Starr, why not come up to Hillsdale, Michigan? I have a really impressive Tudor Art model Starr console, in fine original condition, save for a blown apart Isosonic reproducer. It would be much, much less than $650, I can assure you!

Also all others outside the big three were relying (or trying to circumvent) patents controlled from the dawn by Edison, Victor and Columbia. Like the lateral format for example.... .

All other companies really came onto the market with the expiration of these patents and therefore jumped onto the Phonograph band wagon at a later date or were shut down very quickly during the patent control for infringement.

This alone really makes all other makers an after thought and "generally" considered in the "off brand" category.

I too think brands like Brunswick and even Sonora should be excluded.

However, the "big three" train of thought has been around since the dawn of collecting.