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Ran onto this yesterday and thought I'd scan it. The saxhorn machine was still the NEW HMV ]in 1927.

Jim

The machine looks like a Model 181 which went out of production in February 1927, so it was hardly "new". It had effectively been replaced by the Model 192 which first appeared in September 1926.

Although the new re-Entrant range was introduced in December 1927, some of the saxophone models lasted well into 1929. They are not popular with collectors, many of whom consider them loud but not musical.

epigramophone wrote:They are not popular with collectors, many of whom consider them loud but not musical.

Interesting generalization. I know more than one long-time collector who are quite fond of the HMV sax machines. I own several myself, including one I purchased today. I must admit, however, that some of mine did not sound very good when I got them due to overly stiff diaphragms and decades old, rock-hard gaskets. Once the #4 soundbox is properly restored, all my machines are quite musical. While they aren't in quite the same league as a large horned Orthophonic or HMV re-entrant, they absolutely outperform any pre-1925 Victrola-type instrument.

The term sax horn is new to me in reference to HMV machines, but I am from the states. Does anyone have a photo of the sax horn?

The term "saxophone" came into use as a description for these horns soon after their introduction by HMV in 1926, but they were not an HMV innovation. The first such horn shaped to use the full depth of a floor standing cabinet was patented by Apollo in 1920 and marketed as the "Deep Tone Resonator".

It has been said that HMV adopted the saxophone design because they were reluctant to pay Victor for the rights to the Orthophonic horn. Whether or not this was true, by late 1927 HMV had fallen into line with the Re-Entrant horn based upon the Orthophonic.

I've heard that Victor restricted the use of the Re-Entrant horn at first so they could have exclusivity.

An HMV saxophone horn is pictured in this thread: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... f=2&t=2906

To lengthen the horn in a standard upright cabinet it was made to go down from the arm to the bottom of the record compartment, and then back up to where it curved forward at the horn mouth. The problem this caused was to reduce the record storage- in these models there is a flat panel in the center of the record cabinet with albums to the left and right.

Here's a view of the horn in my HMV 192 from the back of the cabinet. You can see the back end of the small left and right record storage areas adjacent to the horn.

I agree with AZ. I've never heard anyone refer to the sax horn models as unmusical either. They are very good and better than anything else offered on the market at the time in the UK. The best HMV model(s) were the 201/211 and the 511. The latter was not a sax horn model exactly but a contemporary design utilising the unused Lumiere cabinets. It does sound very good indeed.

Both these models are better than anything EMG was selling in 1927 ie. Wilson Horn Model. What they might lack in openness they gain in bass and a remarkably focussed and appealing rich vocal mid-range.

Here's some pix of my HMV 511. Very nice sound.