The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Just installed a new spring into an Victor 1 motor. Put it all back together and instead of a smooth running motor, I have a motor that will not start by itself, needs a boost to get going. Then, it never gets to full speed (where the governor flywheel reaches the speed adjust pad) and only runs for about 5-10 seconds, slows down, and stops. When I remove the spring barrel, the spindle and governor spin very nicely. The ball bearing is present at the bottom of the spindle shaft. The governor flywheel moves smoothly up and down the governor shaft. I tried adjusting the spindle shaft gear to the governor and that didn't help. Checked the installation of the drive gear on the spring barrel and it is correct, the gear teeth are slanted the same way as the spindle worm gear. When I manually turn the spring barrel, it stops. That's the weird part. It should speed up. I've racked my brain trying to figure out what the problem is and haven't come up with the solution yet.

Any thoughts?

Thanks! Cliff

I don't get if the motor used to run well before the spring replacement, or if it was dead for decades.

It was disassembled when I got it. The person I got it from said it wouldn't play very long before it would stop, sounds like it was doing the same thing before the spring change. The old spring was very tired. This new Ron Sitko spring should provide plenty of power.

Cliff

Mmmh. Not a good sign, really.

If you could post some pics of the motor, that would help greatly.

Speaking in general - if feasible at all - I'd try to reassemble the motor leaving off the spring barrel and gear. By manually turning the spindle you should be able to get the whole regulator gears and wheights in motion. This shall not require force: the entire assembly should revolve almost freely. These are also the conditions in which the regulator's wormgear position is better adjusted.

Should the spindle + regulator assembly not rotate freely, that's the motor section that you have to investigate further.

Otherwise I think that the spindle wormgear and/or the spring maingear may be deformed or badly worn out. Or pearhaps not the correct ones for this motor, or they don't match each other. Those are high-precision gears with a very high friction over their teeth, and I have yet to meet the man that can file them back to working order when damaged.

Just to rule this out: I suppose all gears have been well lubricated with some quality grease and oil, are they? You didn't listen to the crazy advice (reported even in the famous The Compleat Talking Machine book) to leave all gears dry, did you?

Not trying to be a smarta***, but are you sure that you installed the spring in the correct direction?

Andreas

There's also the possibility that the governor bearings are too tight. If they're too tight, the motor will do just what is being described.

Sean

As Marco suggested, I believe the spindle shaft worm gear and/or the spring barrel gear are worn out. I've seen it many times. Post some close-up photos of the worm gear teeth and the brass spring barrel gear teeth. The brass barrel gear can wear easily because on these small motors, the gear is very thin.

Marco Gilardetti wrote:Mmmh. Not a good sign, really.

If you could post some pics of the motor, that would help greatly.

Speaking in general - if feasible at all - I'd try to reassemble the motor leaving off the spring barrel and gear. By manually turning the spindle you should be able to get the whole regulator gears and wheights in motion. This shall not require force: the entire assembly should revolve almost freely. These are also the conditions in which the regulator's wormgear position is better adjusted.

Should the spindle + regulator assembly not rotate freely, that's the motor section that you have to investigate further.

Otherwise I think that the spindle wormgear and/or the spring maingear may be deformed or badly worn out. Or pearhaps not the correct ones for this motor, or they don't match each other. Those are high-precision gears with a very high friction over their teeth, and I have yet to meet the man that can file them back to working order when damaged.

Just to rule this out: I suppose all gears have been well lubricated with some quality grease and oil, are they? You didn't listen to the crazy advice (reported even in the famous The Compleat Talking Machine book) to leave all gears dry, did you?

The gear teeth are well lubricated. The spindle and governor spin freely when the spring barrel is removed. Usually, a manual assist turning the spring barrel will add energy to the spring barrel and help speed up the rotation. The opposite occurs with this motor. Manually assisting the spring barrel actually stops the rotation. I thought it might be the spindle shaft gear that drives the governor so I adjusted that to where they both spin freely before installing the spring barrel. The drive gear on the spring barrel appears to be in good condition, no rounded edges or uneven surfaces. The spring is installed the right direction as it winds up nicely and provides energy in the correct direction for play.

I'll get some pictures later today.

Cliff

OrthoSean wrote:There's also the possibility that the governor bearings are too tight. If they're too tight, the motor will do just what is being described.

Sean

I adjusted the governor bearings to allow only the slightest amount of play. The spindle and governor spin very smoothly before the spring barrel is attached.

Cliff

I posted a video on YouTube showing things that don't seem to fix this motor. You can see it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ceRDtpk0SjI

Also some pictures of the gears.

any ideas?

Thanks! Cliff