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Hi everybody! Could I receive informations about sapphire styli, which I bought and yet not received, for vertical (not Hill-and-dale) records? How many times approximately can they be used without wearing the surface of my 78s? And how do they perform by comparison with Pathé sapphire styli? I've two of them and I'm quite satisfied with their performance on my Pathé hill-and-dale records, though sometimes the sound quality in my opinion improves by using on the same Pathé soundboxes the cactus needles which I produce for myself...
Thanks a lot!
Carlo

Carlo,

Vertical and hill and dale are usually terms for the same thing when it comes to records. Might you be inquiring about the use of a sapphire stylus on common lateral cut records?

Clay

Oh, yes: sorry, Clay, thank you for your correction! It's just a bad mistake, and I'm ashamed about it... Yes, I meant "lateral"!

Carlo 1963 wrote:Oh, yes: sorry, Clay, thank you for your correction! It's just a bad mistake, and I'm ashamed about it... Yes, I meant "lateral"!

No need to be ashamed! It happens to all of us. If I had a dollar for every mistake I had made in life I would be rich indeed.

And I am going to be most interested in the answers you get, as I have wondered the same thing.

Clay

A sapphire stylus should only be used to play lateral discs on a modern turntable (2 gram weight over the disc groove). Sapphire or any other hard jewel stylus on a gramophone, with around 200 grams of weight on the groove, will damage the disc groove at the first play.

Carlo, I also failed to get your question exactly. Sapphire ball styli are never used on lateral cut 78 rpm records, as far as I know. Did you perhaps mean that you bought a contemporary stylus for a modern record player, with a moving magnet pick-up and a lightweight arm? That is a spherical-cut stylus for a moving magnet pickup, not a sapphire ball stylus for a gramophone soundbox?

Hi, Marco! I post for you and Carlos and for whom can be interested two photos of the styluses... Don't worry, I didn't mean a sapphire stylus for microgroove!!! The first one is a "Jewel tipped 78s needle, multi-play"and the second one is a "Diadem' Sapphire 78s Stylus, Type DS-1 for 78s only. What do you think of my experiment with cactus needles on a Pathé gramophone for hill-and-dale records?Best greetings!

Carlo, I believe this stylus is made for electrical pickups made in the 40s, or it could be sold to play Edison DDs on a standard soundbox. It certainly should not be used with a heavy gramophone arm. Even the horseshoe electrical pickups are too heavy for such tip, and they will lead to premature degradation of the disc groove.

I have never tried a cactus needle to play vertical discs,but why not? certainly it will wear the discs less than the sapphire ball. Have you managed to achieve proper tracking? the main issue with Pathé records is the shallow groove and the skidding of the tonearm whenever the disc has some wear. And about the volume? is it loud enough?

Carlos,during the weekend I'll make two recordings of the same Pathé saphir disc, at the same recording level: the first one with the typical sapphire stylus, the second with my homemade cactus needle, so that you and those who are interested can judge. The volume is lower, but not so much, and in my opinion the sound quality is better: the sound is warmer and the hiss is less evident as with sapphire ball stylus.

When I was a teenaged collector, I installed a pointed sapphire stylus in my Victrola and discovered it would chew up lateral 78 records very fast! I recommend using only steel, bamboo or thorn needles.

I do not know the long-term effects of playing a Pathé vertical record (with rounded grooves) with a pointed needle, even if it is bamboo or a thorn. The profiles of groove and needle don't match. I think it is best to play records with their original equipment, in this case, a ball sapphire stylus.