The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hello all!

Longtime browser, new participant in your very cool forum. Thanks for all the info over the years....

So straight to it. I recently picked up an HMV Model 26 School Gramophone (Only 545 made) in unmolested condition and it's complete and correct except for the soundbox and horn which are Victor replacements. Since there's very little info on this model (even HMG has little to add) I thought I'd see if any forum members could shed some light for me on a strange variation. Besides the normal differences between the HMV M26 and the Victor XXV (No data plate, different needle cups, different speed dial, HMV transfer, and keyhole position) my machine has an anomaly. The shelf at the bottom swings up from the opposite side as a Victor XXV ie: the hinges are on the same side as the crank. The shelf has only ever been in this orientation as any change along the way would, it seems, be obvious. So. For you Victor XXV owners: (and I'm embarrassed that as many times as I've inspected a Victor XXV I've never checked to see how the bottom shelf was attached to the leg braces) How is your Victor Schoolhouse shelf attached to the leg braces? Countersunk screws, glue? My machine's shelf is connected by countersunk screws up through the leg braces into the immovable part of the shelf, and based on the buildup over time in all the inside corners of the cabinet, and normal wear, it has been in this orientation from day one. No disassembly/reassembly of the cabinet is obvious. No screw holes in the leg braces that would indicate a reorientation of the shelf...

Could this be a factory one-off by a hung-over cabinet man? Ever heard of this variation before? Any wisdom would be appreciated.

Sorry about the poor pics, I'm losing light...

BTW, it was purchased from a local gent who owns an legacy farm with a Civil War era schoolhouse on it. I purchased the gramophone from him. He removed it to his house back in the 50's when the school closed. I'd love to know how it got here. It's probably the only one in the States as bringing one with you from the UK would have been not only silly, but prohibitive. I'm glad someone couldn't emigrate without it! (Probably a British Schoolmarm who didn't think we had gramophones in the Colonies!)

That is a beautiful machine. I love the schoolhouse models. For the reproducer you could probably buy some more common HMV tabletop model like the hornless model 1or 1a and switch reproducers from there. Since you're in the UK I assume you have already tried Ken Priestley, John Sleep, Mike Childs and Bob Hope?

Good luck with your search.
Andreas

alang wrote:That is a beautiful machine. I love the schoolhouse models. For the reproducer you could probably buy some more common HMV tabletop model like the hornless model 1or 1a and switch reproducers from there. Since you're in the UK I assume you have already tried Ken Priestley, John Sleep, Mike Childs and Bob Hope?

Good luck with your search.
Andreas

I'm actually in the US. Nashville to be precise.

But yes, I have talked to most of those gents about this and that but not about the issue listed here. Perhaps I should. Thanks!

Bobby

Duh, I should have read your locations info Yes, over here it's gonna be a bit more of a challenge.

Good luck
Andreas

alang wrote:Duh, I should have read your locations info Yes, over here it's gonna be a bit more of a challenge.

Good luck
Andreas

No problem.

I found a beautiful original green HMV horn (on it's way from the UK) and I had to PAY for it but I can't wait to see it. The machine now has the correct HMV Exhibition reproducer on it. No comments on the orientation of the shelf?

Not really. But I don't understand why you rule out so outright that the bottom shelf may have been inverted at some point in time. It seems very easy to do, just judging by the pictures.

Marco Gilardetti wrote:Not really. But I don't understand why you rule out so outright that the bottom shelf may have been inverted at some point in time. It seems very easy to do, just judging by the pictures.

I'm not sure I've done anything as dramatic as 'ruling it out so outright'. It's just a conclusion based on inspecting it. The shelf could not just be inverted or you would have holes from the original mounting on the other side of the leg braces. The entire cabinet would have to have been disassembled then reassembled with the leg braces inverted to get to this orientation. Not so very easy. That doesn't 'seem' to have happened but it certainly could have I suppose.

bhmack71 wrote:

alang wrote:Duh, I should have read your locations info Yes, over here it's gonna be a bit more of a challenge.

Good luck
Andreas

No problem.

I found a beautiful original green HMV horn (on it's way from the UK) and I had to PAY for it but I can't wait to see it. The machine now has the correct HMV Exhibition reproducer on it. No comments on the orientation of the shelf?

Where (or possibly from whom) did you acquire that horn? These horns are like gold dust over here! It's not like finding a Victor horn in the States, I can tell you. I don't think I've ever seen a stray HMV horn for sale on eBay, certainly not an original one with original paint anyway!

I've got that same School Model albeit with the hinged shelf the "conventional" way around. I really need to get it restored soon as it has been sitting in my garage for 5 years. It came from a totally clueless idiot. Heaven knows what might have happened to it had I not bought it.

Steve wrote:

bhmack71 wrote:

alang wrote:Duh, I should have read your locations info Yes, over here it's gonna be a bit more of a challenge.

Good luck
Andreas

No problem.

I found a beautiful original green HMV horn (on it's way from the UK) and I had to PAY for it but I can't wait to see it. The machine now has the correct HMV Exhibition reproducer on it. No comments on the orientation of the shelf?

Where (or possibly from whom) did you acquire that horn? These horns are like gold dust over here! It's not like finding a Victor horn in the States, I can tell you. I don't think I've ever seen a stray HMV horn for sale on eBay, certainly not an original one with original paint anyway!

I've got that same School Model albeit with the hinged shelf the "conventional" way around. I really need to get it restored soon as it has been sitting in my garage for 5 years. It came from a totally clueless idiot. Heaven knows what might have happened to it had I not bought it.

I bought it from a certain gramophone dealer in Devonshire. I'll withhold his name until it arrives safely, as described, and as seen in the pictures if that's ok, but I'm sure you know who he is (I'm not sure if he's a regular on the forum or not). But, yea, 'gold dust' is what it will cost you to pry one off of a machine in a UK shop and have it shipped over. Offering any number of Pounds got me nowhere with most every dealer in the UK. And I was super aggressive. I was very close to buying a few different Monarchs for the horns but I'd have ended up in the same predicament searching for a horn for that machine.

I'm glad to hear you scooped up the School gramophone. From what I can find out there are only 'Dozens' or less of these machines still in existence. Christie's sold one a few years ago that had the legs cut off. Ugh!

Regards,
Bobby

Arh, that'd be old Sid then!

Well done getting that. I think you know already how well you've done by the sound of it, even if UK buyers on eBay were all sleeping when you bought it from under their noses.

I agree about the problem of buying a Monarch to get the horn. I did that with the intention of donating a better horn to the School Model but then decided to keep the Monarch anyway!!!! Such as it is being a collector.