The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I have just been bitten by the Edison cylinder bug. I would like to record and and play. the only item I have is a used recorder #137130 i got on e-bay. Any ideas what units this would fit? I would be willing to start fresh with a new basic setup and would welcome any recommendations and tips. I have a hearing loss and high quality recording would be lost on me so I am looking for reliability and attainability. I have viewed many of the posts and know that you all have way more knowledge than I do on this equipment and just hope you will shed some light on my path.

Welcome to the forum. I am Shawn Borri, and I am kind of a thorn in the side of the collector community. I am more of an audio mad scientist than a collector. But I have recorded a few thousand cylinders and make phonogram recording blanks. If you check out the post of myself and Chuck Richards you will find much on the subject of cylinder recording and record making. Dubbing is best done making a little cardboard horn, big enough to encapsulate a 3-5" full range speaker, sealing the end of the horn, roll low bass 30-100 cps 8 db, increase the 250 cps range 4db and decrease mid range in the 1000 and 3000 cps range 5db, increase the 6-10,000 cps range 8db where it falls off. This is where I get the best dubbing on most cylinders. most talking records make with a 30" long by 3" end horn, band records, a 56" brass horn, a 36" brass cone horn works well too for instrument recording. For solo instruments a 25" long by 6" opening cone horn works well. You can make the cone horns out of poster board or manillia cardboard folders, rap them with electrical, or masking tape. speak about 2-3" from the horn use an even spaced diction, and constant volume. S's and ch sound emphasized, if you give an old man style consonants with a slightly whistled effect intelligibility with be increased.

By the way the little copper cap with thumb screw is an adjustable coupling resonance baffle, adjusting it in, makes the cavity smaller, and high frequncies increase, bringing it out gives more bass.

Thank you Shawn for the tips and although I am relatively new to forums I will try to find the posts you mentioned.

Shawn,

I am becoming interested in recording on cylinders as well...

Assuming that you have made a good recording on a good cylinder blank, how many times can it be played before it wears out (assuming that your play back machine/reproducer is in good shape)?

Thank you in advance, sir.

Brown wax in general can be played about 100 times with some high frequency loss, and the background noise increases some, and then it does not change after that, this is from the Edison manual of the phonograph. Today the stearic is harder, and thus the brown wax is a little more durable. A customer of mine gave up trying to wear out a cylinder after 1000 plays.

I am trying to record on my Edison Home Model B. After inserting an original Edison recorder and a blank from Paul Morris, I've propped up one of my stereo speakers in from of the witches hat and played it REALLY loud. But the recordings are very faint. I saw a few paragraphs from Shawn Borri in another site describing how to adjust the recorder to help it perform better, but I didn't understand it. Any suggestions?

There are just so many variables when it comes to
making cylinder recordings that it's impossible to
do anything constructive starting out blasting a
speaker into a witch's hat horn.

Granted, we all have done it as one of our first
experiments. But, about all it shows is that home
recordings do tend to be very poor unless extra special
care is taken with all the variables to optimize each one of them.

If you want to start learning about what it takes
to make decent home recordings, I suggest making
talking records first. Try a long narrow horn
about 29 or 30 inches long and 3 inches at the bell.
This horn has no flare on the end, it's just a
straight cone.

Here are some of the variables which have a direct
influence on the quality of the recording:

1) The condition of the recorder in general. Is it
sealed air-tight? Is the cutter sharp? Does the
weight move freely? Is the cutter fastened properly
to the diaphragm, and at the correct angle? Does the
diaphragm move freely? There is often a tightly
packed bunch of old wax shavings and dust wedged
between diaphragm and weight on these old home
recorders which must be removed.

2) The sealing of the recording horn to the recorder
sound tube. It must be absolutely air-tight.

3)The condition and type of blank. This includes the
outside diameter of it as shaved, at the time of
recording. The recorders produce different results
at different diameters of the blank. The hardness
of the blank. The temperature of the blank.
Warmer is better, cooler is worse.

4) The shape of the recording horn. Any extra flare
at the large end will tend to reflect sound and will
produce a muffled and rather quiet and indistinct
recording. This is why morning glory horns are in general not so good for recording.

Best results are obtained (especially at first), if things are kept simple. Try some talking records
using a long thin cone horn or a speaking tube.
Talk loudly. Talk across the horn not directly into it.
You can cup your hand to help stuff all of the sound
down into the horn as you talk.

Make lots of test recordings. Try all sorts of different things. It does not come easily.
It takes some work, and lots of tests to get the hang of it.

Most of the old home recordings are quiet and indistinct. Most folks quit long before they learn
how to make nice loud, distinct cylinder recordings.

Have a look at my website for some hints and ideas:
http://www.richardslaboratories.com

Chuck Richards

The best result I have had with recording is to get the blank nice and warm. I live in the desert. When it's hot outside, I leave the cylinders on the porch for a few minutes. I have a heat lamp pointed at the mandrel to keep that area warm. I use a little squeeze ball to blow the accumulated wax shavings (swarf) from the cylinder. I have the subject speak very loud. Let the cylinder sit and "cure" awhile before you play it. And last, but most sad of all, be prepared to be disappointed with the results. The people that make successful musical recordings or dubbings are using nearly impossible to get studio recorders or privately made electronic systems. I hope I am wrong, but I don't think the home recorders were ever made to do anything but make a record of human speech.

Jeeprod,

There is really no need to always be prepared to be
disappointed with cylinder recordings made using the
common "home" style recorders.

As I outlined in my previous post, if all of the variables
are controlled, the outcome can be a loud, clear
recording.

What you tell about doing as far as warming the blank
prior to recording, that is always a good thing!

As far as recording live music, that requires lots of
practice and many tests and experiments to get the hang
of doing it.

Have a listen to some of the live recordings linked
on my website http://www.richardslaboratories.com

There are several recordings linked on there from a live recording session I did with my Edison Standard model D combination 2/4 minute machine at a live concert
hosted by the Illinois 33rd Regiment Volunteer civil
war marching band. Ironically, during that session,
I got the best results using the 10-panel Edison
morning glory horn as a recording horn.

The machine was on a small table placed in front of
the very front row of seats in a small auditorium.
The band was seated in their normal arrangement.
I did not get the chance to rearrange them, nor to
crowd them around the horn on a step ladder or anything
like that.

Have a listen to those cylinders and let me know what
you think.