The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

My friend in MI, Paul Laurens, has an Edisonic Schubert CLT 3835 phonograph with three metal needle cups. I told him that I've never seen any Edisonic machine, Schubert or Beethoven, with needle cups. Could needle cups have been installed or supplied by the Edison Co. when they started making needle-cut 78s?

I wouldn't think so, and especially not for this serial number.

Using Ralph's compiled data here: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... 56#p141056, it shows this serial number is about ⅔ into the observed production.

Surely we would see other extant examples. More likely, I would think, is that a previous owner "converted" their Schubert to play 78's with an adapter at some point, and installed the needle cups for their own convenience.

The Edison co. never really marketed an adapter (the only one they produced was at the very beginning of Disc Phonograph production, and is exceedingly rare to find), so it's VERY unlikely (to me) that this late in Disc Phonograph production they would have entertained the idea of accommodating another manufacturer's product to play 78's on the machine that -- at the time -- they considered their latest triumphant Diamond Disc listening experience.

Best,
Fran

I think I agree with you that the needle cups were done by some owner in the distant past who was playing mostly 78s, and put some needle cups in for convenience. Also, since all three cups are for fresh needles and there is no trash can cup, that also makes it look like it was done by some owner. Where I think I disagree with you is when you say that Edison never marketed another 78 adapter after the first one back at the 1912-13 introduction of the Diamond Disc machines. It would make sense to me that the Edison Co. would market an adapter when they started producing needle-cut Edison records in 1929. Here are a couple of pics I took of a rare 1929 Edison 78 adapter:

Hmmm, well I stand corrected. Both were only at the very beginning and the very end! How strange.

That's really interesting, Marc. Do you know of any paper documents explaining this attachment? I'd love to know more!

Best,
Fran

Does anyone have a photo of the early, Edison-sanctioned, version of 78 adaptor?

I thought there was one in George and Tim's books, but I'm not finding one.

Fran

There's a photo of the early adapter in Frow.

George P.

Thank you, George!

There's what I was thinking, on pg.39...

Fran

Marc,

Can you post a better picture of the soundbox and the tone arm adapter, so that I can see how they are fastened together?

I'll try to find any source of information that might provide that the Edison co. produced the tonearm adapter portion. We know the Edison portables were produced with this type of soundbox. It's conceivable that it might fit onto any number of tonearm adapters that were produced by other manufacturers.

Best,
Fran

Marc,

Well, I did a little bit of digging, and discovered an ancient and obscure post from WAY back in 2009 that led me to something mentioned on page 176 in Frow (...Disc Phonographs and...) that led me to Gerald Eaton's patent No. 1,908,738, (filed April 6, 1928 awarded May 16, 1933) that clearly illustrates and describes a tone arm adapter that is very similar (if not identical) to the one attached to your soundbox. Holy run-on sentence Batman!!

Although the soundbox (or reproducer) is clearly an electrical device, it seems entirely possible that an accoustic soundbox could have been attached to the adapter, and Frow states on page 176: "After January 1928, a lateral-cut sound-box was sent out as Edisonic equipment."

Fig. 3 of the patent's page 2, clearly shows this adapter and illustrates its function. (Both images courtesy Google Patents)
Best,
Fran