The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Lately an eBay seller has had several auctions of some late (from the typography and packet design, I'd guess late '30s or so) Tungs-tone needles. I find it interesting that Victor did an apparent about-face in their instructions for use. Most of us are familiar with the note on the inner lid of circa 1920s tins, that best results are obtained by turning the needle occasionally: But the later ones warn against doing so:
Here's an enlarged view, for the hard of hearing: Did the geniuses at Victor come late to the conclusion that their early advice had been, um, ill-advised for twenty years or more? Had the needles themselves changed? And, perhaps less crucially, who took the hyphen out of Tungs-tone, and where did they put it? (How long did they keep making these things, anyway? I'd thought they were phased out by the mid-'thirties.)

Or, as Jimmy Cagney might have put it, Saaay! - what's the big idea?!

Photo credit: All nabbed off eBay.

The second note pertains to use of the needle in an electric pickup. Maybe that has something to do with it. The early electric pickups could be heavier than acoustic reproducers.

Maybe the later needles were made after the composition of the records changed. It also calls the sound box a pick up which seems to be a later term maybe 40's 50's?

I wondered if the use of an electric pick-up might have something to do with it, but I can't guess how it would. And if my guess of a later production date for these is correct (again, I base this on the design and typography of the packets), the weight of the pick-up would have lessened quite a lot by that time.

AFAIK, the term "pick-up" was used early on in the transition to electric phonographs. Maybe phonogal is correct in her suggestion about the change in instructions having to do with a changed shellac formula. But, with a lighter tone-arm being at least partly responsible for changes in the shellac, I can't figure out the connection.

Probably not the most earth-shaking mystery in the phonographic world, but the about-face just seems curious to me. Maybe the later needles themselves were made differently somehow than the earlier ones? But why would that be?

My life spans the eras from electrical 78s through 45 and 33-⅓ rpm and "high fidelity," mono to stereo (and passing through the short-lived quadraphonic---I still own a Dynakit quad amp that I assembled back in the '70s, but no longer use), etc. etc. The cartridge/stylus/tone arm assembly has been called "pick-up" for at least as far back as I can date it, to the advent of "hi-fi," and right up to the present. IOW, the term has been around for a long time, and I agree that it refers to electrical reproduction of disk records rather than acoustical, for which "sound box" and "needle" are the appropriate terms (although be it noted that "needle" also can refer to the stylus in an electrical pick-up, even in a modern cartridge: old habits die hard!). So I agree that the earlier instructions (on the tin) refer to acoustical reproduction, while the later ones (on the packet) refer to electrical. Just my 2¢ woth.

My thought is that turning the tungs-tone needle would do two things, both a bit undesirable: First, the tip would have to grind itself down more to fit the groove, due to its new position, and wasting that small amount of tip.
Second, the unfortunate record played after the turning would have more groove damage until the tip had reshaped itself.
Some collectors will either sacrifice a record to shape the tip, or else run the needle at the end of a record at the lead-out eccentric grooves to do the same thing.
It seems to me the accoustic records had more silent lead-in time to help shape the tip before the music content began.
Chromium needles, in my opinion, were the worst for any application!
Bob

Pickup / pick-up is rarely used anymore except perhaps by folks of a certain "vintage." The audiophile / electronics press always refers to a cartridge and your everyday Joe Blow might call it a "needle." As in - "I have to buy a new needle for my stereo, my old one broke."

I've been known to use the term pickup - it's still apt, but has a funny, quaint ring to it.

Wolfe wrote:Pickup / pick-up is rarely used anymore except perhaps by folks of a certain "vintage." ....

I've been known to use the term pickup - it's still apt, but has a funny, quaint ring to it.

To each his own. It's still the better term to use for referring to the entire primary input apparatus necessary to effect output of a disk recording, no matter what the speaker's "vintage." The cartridge is only a part of that apparatus, no matter what the "current audiophile / electronics press" calls it and means by it. Perhaps they could learn a lesson by listening to their elders for a change.