The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi,

As promised, the Vic II humpback from Ebay arrived today, it was very well packed. A few questions, it needs the correct spacer for the turn-table brake. The tone-arm is much lighter in weight than the tone arm on my Victorola's - it feels light like aluminum. Shouldn't the correct tone-arm be brass that was plated? I first thought it was just badly tarnished but now think it may be a reproduction part. The rebuilt reproducer that came with it needs to be fixed a little, the mica around the needle bar hole appears to be delaminating, and no beeswax was applied to either side. The elbow appears original to me. I've taken some pictures so the more experienced collectors can comment.

Link to the original auction:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111935492886

Questions:
1. Is my tone-arm a repro part, if so how much would a proper replacement run?
2. Can I upgrade my horn to a 18.5" "O" brass/black horn with my existing elbow?
3. Where can I get the metal spacer for the turn-table brake, there is a piece of press board on there now.
4. And lastly for folks with the Vic II, how many winds does it normally take to play through a 12" record? Its around 35 winds on my Vic II. I can order a new main-spring from Ron if that will help.
5. I also included a pic of the reproducer that came with the machine, is the Mica ok? I can do the beeswax tonight, but I don't have any spare mica for the Exhibition. The machine currently has one of my spare rebuilt Exhibition reproducers on it.

Thanks,
-Mike

1) A good way to tell if it has the correct tone arm is to rotate the the reproducer into a playing position. The needle should come very close or touch the spindle. The tone arm looks original to me but it could be from an early Victrola. If it comes very close to the spindle, you're good.
2) The Victor II elbow will fit any larger Victor horn. In my opinion the horn it came with looks very nice and appropriate.
3) Ron Sitko sells good replacement Victor brake parts.

Jerry Blais

The slightly earlier Victor machines did not have a thick spacer under the brake assembly. There was usually a thin moon shaped piece to protect the finish where the brake lever goes back and forth. Another oval shaped piece was under the other end. I think you have those thin pieces. The fact that it appears that you need a thick spacer suggests the turntable and motor are too high. Please check to see that you have some rubber washers between the motor and the motor board. If you do not or the washers are very thin, the turntable will be higher. It looks like the crank escutcheon is tilted a bit. That might be related to the height of the motor. I would:
1- Check for washers between the motor and motor board.
2- Install washers to lower the motor and turntable.
3- Now check to see if you still need the spacer.
4-Use round headed slotted nickel plated screws for both the brake assembly, crank escutcheon and speed control.
5-You may need to remove the crank escutcheon before you lower the motor. I would fill the escutcheon holes and re-drill them when the motor is where is should be.

Don't be discouraged. You have a great little machine with tons of personality and potential. Everything I've suggested is really easy.

Jerry Blais

Having recently struggled though investigating a lot of things in the process of restoring my own Vic II humpback (aka Vic II Type M), maybe I can help a little.

Your Questions:

1. Is my tone-arm a repro part, if so how much would a proper replacement run?

Comment: It looks to me as though the tone arm is likely correct. And these are smaller than most (maybe all) of the later arms and therefore lighter. See Jerry’s comment about a tone arm crook in playing position and swung toward the center resulting in the needle coming to, or very close to, the spindle. If it does you are probably good to go.

2. Can I upgrade my horn to a 18.5" "O" brass/black horn with my existing elbow?

Comment: Options for your machine (from a contemporary catalog) were a black and brass “G” (11 ⅜” bell) or “H” (13 ¼” bell) or a #19 flower horn. If yours is a “G” or an “H” I’d stay with it if it were mine, but your call of course.

3. Where can I get the metal spacer for the turn-table brake, there is a piece of press board on there now.

Comment: There should be no spacer. As Jerry mentioned there were rubber isolation washers between the motor and the bottom of the motor board and these have likely rotted away. Replacing them will bring the turntable down closer to the motor board.

Also there is a pin that goes through the spindle and slots in the bottom of the turntable to accept the pin. When in the proper position the slots slip down over the pin and the turntable rests on the pin. When I got my humpback there was a bit of corrosion that kept the turntable from settling all the way down on the pin. A bit of sanding quickly fixed that so that the turntable settled down to the proper level.

4. And lastly for folks with the Vic II, how many winds does it normally take to play through a 12" record? Its around 35 winds on my Vic II. I can order a new main-spring from Ron if that will help.

Comment: Haven’t checked that.

5. I also included a pic of the reproducer that came with the machine, is the Mica ok? I can do the beeswax tonight, but I don't have any spare mica for the Exhibition. The machine currently has one of my spare rebuilt Exhibition reproducers on it.

Comment: If it were mine, I’d probably replace the mica. If you want to be a purist, your humpback would have come with an Exhibition with the round needle hole, but I wouldn’t worry too much if yours has the triangular hole. I expect lots of them were upgraded to the triangular hole model later.

Thanks,
-Mike

Hi,

Thanks for the advice. Yes the rubber grommets are missing, that explains the home made spacer. I'll go ahead and fix that. The reproducer that came with it is the correct early round hole version, once I fix it I'll put it back on. The reason I was looking at a larger horn is to increase the volume for the room its in.

-Mike

With any acoustic machine, the horn directs the sound. Granted, there is a difference with a tiny horn vs a large one but the difference between your horn and a larger one would be minimal. Perhaps someone on the forum could actually do a sound test and give an opinion on the difference. I like what you have because the proportions with the machine its cabinet are so good. That's only my opinion. Jerry Blais

Mike, you might find that the volume and clarity are more to your liking after the reproducer is properly rebuilt. And while the choice is yours, of course, I am with Jerry in being of the opinion that the proportion of the horn to the machine is a significant consideration. Your Vic II "humpback" is, after all, a fairly small machine.

Clay

Another clue on identifying a Victor horn machine tone arm and a Victrola tone arm is the tiny mark where the reproducer has rested for the last one hundred years. On any Victor horn machine the large end of the tone arm points up. You'll find the small mark where the reproducer rested on that side of the tone arm. On any Victrola the large end of the tone arm points down. If you find the tiny mark on that side of the tone arm, the tone arm came from a Victrola. Some tone arms were exactly the same and could be used on a Victor or Victrola. A good example is the gold tone arm used on an early "L" door VV-XVI. That arm could be used on a Victor VI and it would be perfectly correct but... The little mark made by the reproducer would be on the side where the tone arm points down indicating a marriage of parts. If so, you may want to look a little deeper.

TWO THINGS TO ALWAYS REMEMBER:

#1 - The needle should touch or be very close to the spindle when the reproducer is in a playing position.

#2 - The little reproducer mark from the reproducer will indicate if the tone arm was used on a Victrola or Victor.

Jerry Blais

Jerry B. wrote:Another clue on identifying a Victor horn machine tone arm and a Victrola tone arm is the tiny mark where the reproducer has rested for the last one hundred years. On any Victor horn machine the large end of the tone arm points up. You'll find the small mark where the reproducer rested on that side of the tone arm. On any Victrola the large end of the tone arm points down. If you find the tiny mark on that side of the tone arm, the tone arm came from a Victrola. Some tone arms were exactly the same and could be used on a Victor or Victrola. A good example is the gold tone arm used on an early "L" door VV-XVI. That arm could be used on a Victor VI and it would be perfectly correct but... The little mark made by the reproducer would be on the side where the tone arm points down indicating a marriage of parts. If so, you may want to look a little deeper.

TWO THINGS TO ALWAYS REMEMBER:

#1 - The needle should touch or be very close to the spindle when the reproducer is in a playing position.

#2 - The little reproducer mark from the reproducer will indicate if the tone arm was used on a Victrola or Victor.

Jerry Blais

Jerry,

Thanks for this info. The tone-arm does touch the spindle when in the playing position. The main reason why I questioned it was the lightness and the fact it didn't look like it was plated. You can see the difference in the picture, the elbow is plated, but the tone-arm does not appear to be plated.

Clay,

Yes, the reproducer on it currently is rebuilt. I also tried out a rebuilt #2 and #4 on the Vic II as well, I usually use soft needles. I'll see if I have time over the next week to take a video of the various reproducers playing on it, there is an increase in volume as the reproducer size increases but its not dramatic.

Thanks,
-Mike

Mike, your tone arm has its original plating, it is just that the nickle has grayed with age and wear and it has worn through to the underlying brass in a few places. It might liven up a little with a gentle going over with a good auto paste wax, but of course that won't bring back the plating where it is worn through.

Clay