The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Hi All,

Well this was this weekend's pick up, it was listed locally (well a state away) so I jumped at it. I'm not exactly sure where to go now that I have it. A couple of questions for those that know more about these than me:

1. Would this machine have originally been sold as a concert (5") with this Spring Motor base? I note the very early Serial Number #229 on the upper works and the "Spring Motor for Edison Phonographs" plate.

2. Is it possible to date the machine?

3. Would you try to restore to a 5" machine? I already have a mint concert.

Tips and advice much appreciated!!

Mario

My own Concert is a similarly updated hodge-podge, and I kind of like it like that. It has a 2/4 conversion, standard mandrel plus a slip-on concert size mandrel, and two carriages (one for each size).

Someday I will make up the reproducer extension piece that positions the reproducer downward below the Concert carriage, to enable playing standard size cylinders without switching carriages. All it is, is a regular reproducer top (no diaphragm or weight) with a tube welded to its underside, and a setscrew at the bottom of the tube to hold the throat of the C or H reproducer at the right spot below, over the standard size cylinder.

I think your new find is quaint. I like the low serial number and nice ID plates, and the pinstriping looks good. I say you find a Concert carriage and a slip-on mandrel, create the extension adaptor thingie, and enjoy it.

Congrats! Like the name plate a lot. As far as the condition is concerned, a new carriage arm and an original mandrel might not be worthy or add much value to this machine personally. My suggestion is to find an arm that plays common cylinders and leave as it as you might be able to get one from eBay cheaply if watch closely. Chances are you will be unlikely to get an concert arm unless getting a repo. Paul Baker made them before check him up see if he does now. Btw, why some many Concert arms are either broken or missing?

Serial number 229?

Congratulation on a great find. The excellent moulded two minute cylinders made the 5" cylinders obsolete as soon as they were introduced to the public. There was an incentive for the Concert owner to convert his machine because the Concert was a considerable investment, When modified to play smaller cylinders the Concert was the same as a Spring Motor or Triumph. Your machine is well the restoration effort. If it was my machine, I'd restore it to play 5" cylinders although it would be much easier restoration to play standard sized cylinders. Jerry Blais

Nice find!

Fran

I agree, that's a great find and well worth restoring, especially in such nice condition and with a low serial number.

Congratulations!

Andrsas

Great machine well worth restoring. As Jerry said I would put it back to its original configuration as a 5" machine. I especially like the low serial number.

Rich Gordon

Mario,
You actually have two machines there! A Spring Motor bottom and a Concert top. The Spring Motor has a different case size than the Concert. The pin stripe is different on your upper and lower bedplates. I would clean both up and then search for the missing components of each. Serial 229 is the second earliest Concert I have seen. The earliest one that I have seen was number 6.

Great find(s)!

Steve

It looks like you may have a very early Edison-Bell 'Duplex'. I've only seen them with the banner front but if I'm viewing the pictures correctly the (broken) reproducer carriage arm looks like it's made for a Concert mandrel, not the typical replacement arm sold for small mandrel conversions back in the day that has a much lower profile.

The Edison-Bell Duplex had a slip-on Concert mandrel, and a special extension piece to hold the reproducer in the small mandrel configuration. It was equivalent to Graphophones like the AB, AF, and AD -- able to play either Concert or regular cylinders. Check out these pictures of one I used to own.