The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

With antique phonographs as with any other collection hobby, a person's honor and reputation is the most important asset they have. To me, that is more important than the most expensive and rarest phonograph. A case in point: Several months ago, I helped a Forum member identify a phonograph. I spent quite a bit of time researching, but had some general information on it. The person wanted to sell it and asked for an offer. I gave a very fair offer. the Forum member said that I get first crack on it. They are going on vacation and will get back to me. I didn't hear anything, and to be honest I almost forgot about it. Then instead of contacting me, the machine gets listed. I immediately tell the seller that I want this machine. The seller send me 2 emails. The first was shipping. They second one says that they decided to sell this to someone else with my offer price. I normally don't feel ill will towards someone, but in this case, it's different. You help somebody out, they make a promise and they renege on thier word. Yes, it's only a machine, and this is only a hobby. To me, this person's honor and reputation is toast in my book. If this person ever contacts me for help, or anything like that, no way, will I ever help that person again. I'm over it, and I'll ecentually find another example. OK Rant over. Glad I got this off of my chest.
Harvey Kravitz

Harvey, I totally agree with you and I am really sorry that you had to experience this. Fortunately the vast majority on this forum seems to be helpful, honorable and stand to their word. At least this has been my experience. I hope and wish that you will habe a different, positive experience soon to outweigh this bad memory.

Take care
Andreas

The big red warning sign here was "make me an offer". In most cases where the buyer and seller do not know each other, no matter what you offer, the seller will use that information against you.

People call or send me emails almost daily with stuff for sale. I simply tell them to give me full details and asking price. If they say, "gee, I don't know what it's worth, you tell me", that's the end of the line for me.

Last year I was offered an expensive music box that I had sold 12 years ago by the family of the customer who ended up in jail (no kidding). They put a price on it and I made arrangements to pick it up from them the following week, when I could arrange for the $20k in cash, a helper, and small truck. The night before, they called me, and said sorry, there was a legal glitch, they would need a few more weeks. Several months went by and they called me again, and said the coast was clear. What they didn't know was that in this small collector's world, I knew they had shopped it around and they indeed learned that the price I agreed to pay was extraordinarily fair. Just on general principles, I declined and wished them good luck. What goes around, comes around.

Raphael

I don't like mind games. "Make me an offer" usually signals a waste of time. The seller knows or should know what he/she really wants for the item. I figure they are just trolling for suckers. Stand up and state your proposition!

In a rare mood, I *will* make an offer alright, a low offer to draw them out. When they reject my offer, I tell them, "Okay, then what do you propose?". Usually, the game stops there when they won't give a figure. There can be surprises though. One time someone offered me an RCA Radiola III complete with original tubes. What would I give him for it? I replied "Twenty dollars". He recoiled, "Oh, no! That's not enough"! I said, "Okay then, what do you have in mind"? He replied, "I couldn't accept less than twenty-five". I paid him.

Thanks for the kind words and understanding. If it is a complete stranger, I wouldn't give them the time or day. But, this is a Forum member with lots of posts, so I thought they were OK, so I obliged them. I won't reveal this person publicly, but if I get a PM, I will give the person's name privately.
Harvey Kravitz

I'm sorry this happened to you Harvey. Unfortunately, I had the same thing happen to me with a Forum Member, only we had agreed on a purchase price mutually way beforehand and even made arrangements to make it all work (this wasn't by any means a cheap machine) and it wound up listed here and subsequently sold to someone else before I even had a chance to see the listing. I'm still very angry about it, even if it was only a machine, it was something I really wanted for my collection and I was more than willing to pay the price. Rafael is correct though, what goes around comes around.

Sean

some times with posts like this it's perhaps more prudent to know all the facts before voicing support for a one-sided rant. and I say rant because even the original poster here acknowledged it as such.

that said, regarding timing, I've both beaten, and been beaten by, others when trying to buy some of these things. and I've been in discussions over time with people about certain machines, whether they might sell, for how much, what the thing might be worth, only to see the owner end up selling to someone else... even in a couple of cases when there'd basically been a verbal agreement (this happened a year or so ago with an early orthophonic school machine I was trying to buy... we'd come up with a price, I was going to pick it up at a show, only to later learn when I emailed him to confirm the pick up that he'd sold it instead to a friend). I was annoyed, but whatever, these things happen, even if they "shouldn't."

the situation Raphael described, on the other hand, well, the deliberate deception there puts it in a slightly different category I should think.

I had something of the opposite experience. I don't have many phonographs and a couple months back was willing to sell my Edison Triumph model D cylinder phonograph; I made a declaration to that effect in this Yankee Trader section. One forum member approached me and asked what I wanted--and I innocently enough asked what they thought it should go for. That brought the discussion to an end as the other party didn't want to negotiate if I hadn't committed myself to a starting price. I know what I put into the machine in repairs and upgrades--but also knew I wouldn't be able to sell it for that. I was truly looking for an honest exchange of information so that I could discover a reasonable price range--and would have felt honor-bound to sell it to that person if the offer struck me as fair.

After that I decided not to pursue a sale through this forum and will just economize to meet my other hobby needs. If I'm going to have to throw out a price right at the onset then I might as well do it on E-bay.

I felt a bit "dirty" after that exchange; I felt as if I'd been reproached for illicit street peddling.

Oh well. I've met lots of nice individuals on here. I'll just keep it to record-swapping with a few buddies and let the opposing armies (big-ticket buyers and sellers) warily circle each other.

Ralph

Please let it be known there was no deliberate deception here on my part. I honestly forgot about a conversation that I had 4-5 months ago when I posted the Navy portable in the featured phonograph area. Back then I was undecided about keeping it yet also not too interested in keeping either it since I don't collect portables. So this past week I decided to list a couple of machines that I could bring to the Wayne show on April the 10th. A forum member sent me a PM for additional information and additional photographs, which in turn a sent him almost immediately including a short smart-phone video of the Navy portable playing. Shortly after that PM you contacted me also and jolted my 61 one year old memory of our October-November 2015 conversation. But I had sold it to the other forum member after he looked at the photos I sent him. No deliberate deception, just an honest memory break down for which I am guilty as charged. Now the member I just sold it to told me there would be NO hard feelings if I sell the machine to you. Actually he was very understanding about the whole thing.....I feel that I am being slammed here for forgetting a conversation from 4-5 months ago, and I am actually quite hurt by this since I am a trustworthy honest Christian person. So if it will make ALL parties involved here happy, I will gladly DONATE this Navy portable to your VFW hall and put this whole matter behind me. FREE of charge and I will even pay the shipping to you. Not to sound like a 61 year old big baby, but I am really hurt about this - again a memory lapse and a matter of simple mis-communication. I think I'm going to start collection toasters now instead.

I think that's beyond generous, particularly given what was written about you. I'll note that I was the "other" buyer, and I did contact brian almost as soon as he posted this for sale (I just happened to be reading the forum when he did). if I was the seller here, on the other hand, I'd be hard-pressed to allow someone to guilt trip, bully or pressure me into letting him have his way in a situation like this.