The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I was wondering if anyone has ever made a new recorder stylus? Why would it have to be sapphire just to cut wax? I was thinking of steel. What would the end need to look like? A point? A wedge? Any ideas here?
Dave D

Dave D wrote:I was wondering if anyone has ever made a new recorder stylus? Why would it have to be sapphire just to cut wax? I was thinking of steel. What would the end need to look like? A point? A wedge? Any ideas here?
Dave D

The home recording stylus was cylindrical with a flat end. The Reiss book shows how to make one by snapping s glass rod of the right thickness- the glass will work but of course it will wear.

If you examine an Edison 2-minute recorder
cutting stylus using suitable light and magnification,
you will see that it has a concave hollow end.

The edge of it is sharp all around. The end is highly
polished sapphire. The sapphire rod is .040 to .041
inch diameter.

The hollow end is made in a couple of steps.
A hole is bored into the end, along the axis of the rod.
This hole can either be straight or tapered.
There are examples of both kinds out there, which Edison
used at various times.

After the hole is bored into the end of the rod,
then the remaining flat profile is beveled at an angle
forming a slight slope inward. Then it is highly
polished.

Other types of cutters have been made and used.
One such kind is in the form of a tiny chisel, with
no "cupped point", no bevel, no hollowed out portion.

You can use a busted-off glass rod.

Heck I even tried one one time using balsa wood
with a piece of a sewing needle stuck through it.
Mounted that to a recorder diaphragm and recorded with it. Hollered into the horn as loud as I could and made
a faint record of it that barely could be heard.

There's a very good reason why the genuine "cupped-point" polished sapphire cutters work as
well as they do. That is because around 120 years ago,
or so, there was a large laboratory full of very well
paid, very dedicated workers who tried anything
and everything, and they decided on the polished
hollowed-out sapphire rod.

They did all of the experiments for us.
They got the results.

Remember about 2003 Rich Goodin and I had a run of cupped center cutters made, they were the finest modern cutters out there. Anyone interested in another run, they more expensive to obtain now than in 2003, and I am sure that those who used them can attest to this. Chuck is certainly right the Expert ones work but not like the cupped center sapphires. Glass rod will work for about 10 recordings.

Chuck makes a good point about the Edison guys do all the experimenting years ago. If a good cutter were available, I would be interested.
Dave

Hello,
I would also be interested in a new cutter. There has to be a market for this product. Don't we all have two or three recorder bodies in out parts boxes without cutting stylus and stylus bars??? I think more Phonograph collectors would be interested in doing home recording experiments if the products for rebuilding the recorders were available.
Pete

Count me in for a couple? Can I start buying recorders with missing cutters?

Seriously. Buying up a bunch of recorder hulks
is a very good way to go! They sometimes even
have good diaphragms and gaskets. It is a good
practice if one is serious about working with cylinder
recorders to always have at least a few extra hulks
and parts waiting for the time when more good cutters are
found.

Lately there seems to be a general interest among
several people here for obtaining some new 2 minute
recorder cutters.

I have a source for these. They are brand new genuine
"cupped point" sapphire cutters made in 2 styles.
One style has a straight hole, the other style has
a tapered hole. They cost in the $50 range per piece
in lots of 25 pieces. Cost decreases as quantity
increases.

Over the last several years, a few gentlemen have
expressed some interest about going in on a bulk
order for these cutters.

The company which makes them is the same company
who made the order for (100) of them back in year 2003
for Shawn Borri and Rich Goodin. I contacted this
company a few years ago and they agreed to talk with me
but only after I had gotten the original purchase
order number and also had assured them that I have full
permission to access that proprietary information.

They subsequently agreed to supply me with one each
of those cutters in the two styles as free engineering
samples. Since that time I have those sample cutters
mounted and working in 2 separate recorders.

I do not have a video posted at this time of the
results using the tapered-hole cutter. However
there are examples of how the straight hole cutter
sounds. If you want to hear 2 recording tests of
that straight hole type cutter, go to my website
at http://www.richardslaboratories.com and select
the video "Finishing Operations". Skip over the
reaming and shaving portion and go straight to the
recording tests. Listen for recorders 413454 and 110543.

If there is enough interest, we could maybe all
go in on a bulk order for some of these cutters.
See below for the most recent price quote: