The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

I picked up an album with about twenty 12" Victor records in it because it was so cheap and I am trying to start a collection. Here is my dilemma. There are many variety of labels and genres and I don't know if any of them are valuable or rare in any way. So if anyone could share some information if they know anything about the ones I am listing I would greatly appreciate it. Here are the ones that I am unsure of.

Two of the records are opera, ( I am assuming ) as they have red labels. But, they are a little different than the normal red labels in that they say Victrola on one side of the spindle and Record on the other instead of the usual "Victor". The numbers are:

95203 and 96200. Both of them have perfect square labels on the back describing the opera performances and even have lyrics. (so it appears)

Here is what made me interested in these and curious as to their value. The 95203 has a price of $5.00 on it and the 96200 has a price of $7.00 on it! Normally I see $1.00 or even $1.50, but when I saw that this was $7.00 and then found that it was mad around 1910 I was led to believe this may be rare. Am I right in this assumption. Where many made? $7.00 for one record a hundred years ago is quite a bit of money. If anyone has any other information I would love to hear about it.

There are 2 other 12" black label double sided records that just say "Victor". This was normal to me until looking closer and there is an imprint at twelve o' clock on the rim just above the edge of the label that says VE. I guess this means they were electronically recorded and don't know the first thing about this type of record. Are they valuable, rare or tough to find? The label doesn't say anywhere that they were electrically recorded or that they are orthophonic or anything. They just have a VE imprinted above the label. The label does say "For best results use Victor Tungs-Tone needles". So again, any information would be appreciated.

There are many more including about a dozen 10" Victors with VE on the top of the label that also say "orthophonic recording". I haven't seen many of these, but then I am only about 6 months into collecting. Are they rare or worth much?

Thanks for all the help and I will post some pics tomorrow to help for identification.

I've no doubt that in 1910, a $5 & $7 disc would have been beyond most peoples budgets, and that they would have sold in very limited numbers, making them a pretty rare find today.
Unfortunately, rare doesn't always equal valuable.
I have an early Vitaphone disc which is believed to be the only copy in existance, but it's probably worth no more than about $10 today.
What does make a record valuable is popularity & demand NOW.
Classical & opera recordings have a fairly limited appeal to collectors when compared to say early jazz & dance band recordings, so demand is not as high.
It's also very hard to put a set value on any record, as it often will change almost daily.
We've all seen records listed on ebay that will sell one week for $200, then the next week, another copy in the same or better condition will sell for $10. It really just depends on how many people want that particular disc at that particular time.

I dont know much at all about Victor records, as in Australia we were supplied by HMV, so Victor records weren't sold here.
I do know the "VE" on the label &/or the runout area does indicate an electrical recording.
One of the US collectors no doubt will be able to tell you all about these discs, but my guess is that the "Victor" label with VE in the runout probably dates for 1925, when Victor started doing electrical recording, but didn't announce it to the public because they feared nobody would want the stocks of acoustic recording they still had. I think it took at least a few months before they had built up a small catalogue of electric recording, and it was then announced, with a new label stating it was an electric "Orthophonic" recording.
I dont think any of these would be rare or valuable, but again it will depend on title, artist, condition & demand.

The $7 'Lucia Sextette -- Chi Me Frena? (What Restrains Me?)' was issued in two iterations. I am on the road and have absolutely no reference materials or my own copies of the recordings to draw from, so I can't quote the exact line-ups on each issue accurately from memory or the catalog numbers . . . but the point of this is that a $7 record was a prestige item in Victor's catalog and untold thousands of copies of this recording were given away by dealers as a perk when a higher-end Victor or Victrola was purchased. They are not at all rare in spite of the lofty price. They were a major Victor promotional item. I would seriously doubt that very few, if any, were ever actually sold at $7. My inflation calculator shows a 2007 value of $95.65 for a purchase of $7 in 1918 (an arbitrary date).

Great advertising gimmick, though -- Victor's forte! And great recordings . . . I like both versions, especially the version where Caruso goes for the note three times in rapid succession near the end. The other version seems to feature the ladies a bit more.

Sonny, I would suggest you subscribe to Kurt Nauck's (http://www.78rpm.com) and Tom Hawthorn's (emailed) record auctions as a good way to dip your toe in an immense ocean.

John M

Seriously, it seems like that 7.00 Lucia Sextette turns up in every other pile of Red Seal records I find, I'm rather tired of seeing it actually.

You have the 1908 version featuring Sembrich, Severina, Scotti, Journet, Daddi and Caruso.

95203 is a selection from Gounod's Faust featuring Caruso, Farrar and Journet. One of about 10 Faust sides Caruso (with partners) recorded in 1910, thus making it the most complete recorded chunk of any opera with Caruso's participation.

SonnyPhono,

Without seeing images of the records I'm guessing you have some Canadian Victors if they are of the "Batwing" style and have a "VE" in a small oval on the label. I recommend finding a copy of Steven C. Barr's The Almost Complete 78RPM Record Dating Guide (II). Also I do hope our own Label Guide will eventually be able to help with questions like these.

Regards,
John