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I ran across this machine yesterday in an antique store up in Minnesota with my Mom and have wondered what these large Vival tonal machines sound like in person for years. I hardly ever see one around here and I've never seen a full sized on in person. I haven't put this back together to play it yet as my rear brakes went out on my pickup yesterday on the way home with this thing, so I've had to deal with that most of today.

There doesn't seem to be much out there about this model (or really any of the Viva-tonal machines for that matter) But you guys always seem to like looking at stuff like this when it turns up. This really needs to be refinished pretty badly as the last guy gave it a couple of coats of polyurethane over what was left of the original finish. It also needs some veneer work on the back edge of the lid and in a few other places on the cabinet. I pulled the grille out of it when I moved it yesterday, along with all the other missing stuff under the lid. The horn is sure a weird affair in comparison to what Victor had in their large orthophonic machines. I asked the dealer if she knew anything about the history of the machine and she said the guy that had it consigned at the store said it belonged to the bank president in town and he got it at their estate auction 30-40 years ago. The tone arm is sure quite a contraption on these things...

What a beautiful phonograph!

Columbia sure had a weird model line up in their Viva-Tonal machines. There were at least 2 or 3 different model numbers in each of the 600, 700, and 800 series. Each of the models in their respective series are actually really similar, only differing in a few details (like the use of mahogany or walnut, or the use of a drop down door versus two swing-out doors, or some cabinet design elements). I have a Columbia 611, I've seen a 610, a 613, a 600, and a 602, and they all look pretty similar. The 650 however is significantly different as it has an extra part to the bottom of the cabinet making it taller.

Also, I believe when they started making the "Electrola" type radio/phono combos in the late 20's and early 30's, they had these designated as the 900 series.

That being said, I personally love my Viva Tonal floor model and find it does really well on a broad range of records. It does justice to early acoustic records, and can still sound good when playing later 40's 78's. I had the reproducer rebuilt, and all connections are sealed. This is a must for this line up, because I believe they already lack in comparison to the Victor Orthophonics. I have heard this is OK because the Viva Tonal records were recorded so well that the records themselves make up for the lack of bass, volume, etc. My 611 has the small exponential non-folded horn. I have no clue what kind of horn is in the 800 series. I have seen pictures of the horn, but I hope someone who owns one of these can elaborate on what type it is.

This is a very rare machine. It was on the market for probably only a couple of months or so. I think the year would be 1927-28. There is a lot of information on Columbia Viva Tonal machines on this site, if you can find them. I own two big Viva Tonals, an 800 and an 810. I also own a rare 720, which is a smaller console version of your 820. The old Columbia motors are very different from Victor or Brunswick motors. But my 720 has a more conventional Heinemann Motor of Quality. It has the conventional type of brake that uses the rim of the turntable to stop the motor. I see many differences between your 820 and my 810. Is your horn made of wood or metal? I think mine is made of wood, but looks like metal. Does your turntable have a rim that is used by an open brake pad? My older 800s use an invisible brake that works directly on the governor under the motor board. Another difference is your motor is on the right like a Credenza, whereas mine is in the middle.

Your phonograph is shown in the Ipad version of Baumbach's book on Columbia phonographs. He says this about the 820:

“Viva-Tonal Phonograph Model No. 820
Brown walnut cabinet, toned and shaded. Swinging doors, when open, reveal a gracefully designed grille, in back of which is a rayon satinette cloth screen. On each side of the grill are two bins for records (four bins in all). Each bin is provided with index separators and has a capacity for fifteen records. Three-spring motor. Viva-tonal tone arm and the Viva-tonal No. 15 reproducer. The 12-inch turntable is overlaid with green velvet. Important exposed parts, except the gun-metal crank handle and escutcheon, are gold plated, satin finish.
Height, 45½"; Width, 28⅝"; Depth, 22¼".
Introduced 1928
Original Price $200.00”

Excerpt From: Robert W. Baumbach. “Columbia Phonograph Companion Volume II.” Mulholland Press, Inc., 2014. iBooks. https://itun.es/us/bbNoN.l

Here is a link to a good thread on the Columbia 810 model: http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =2&t=23541

BEAUTIFUL! Boy, would I like to hear it - post more pics as you go.

That's interesting to learn a little more about this thing. I did go and find some other posts about these 800 series machines. I knew that I hadn't seen this cabinet style before in pictures, but when I bought it I just knew it had to be one of the largest of those machines they offered. I did make a recording of it playing and will post a link to the video on youtube once it's uploaded. The reproducer and tone arm definitely need some tweaking and probably new gaskets as well. It seems to be a little brighter sounding than the Victrola 8-9 I have, but the bass is a little lacking. But that should improve some after that tone arm in sorted out and the connection re-greased in there. That's sure an odd tone arm, Columbia kind of over-engineered that thing I'm thinking. But at least it's not pot metal and it all seems to be pretty well made. The motor sure runs quietly and sure needs to have the springs re-greased. They sure did put a crank with a long sweep on it as well.

The felt is just glued down on top of the turntable. It's not the style with the rim trapping the edge of the material (thankfully) But it's also not the original material so I'll have to find something else to put on there. And the brake stops the motor on the inside rim of the turntable with a leather disk that has a screw in the center. Those tip out bins are really well made and have 15 dividers I think and celluloid or some other hard plastic material with numbers on them. I think number 5 and number 10 are red on each set. The paper dividers are in very nice shape and it doesn't look like they were used very much. It came with a big stack of records from the later 30's into the 50's and they can't be the records that have always been with that machine. I would guess the records got pulled out if it to make it a little lighter when it got moved and probably got away from the thing at the household sale years ago. It's a fairly heavy thing, but not as heavy as a Credenxa.

Below are pictures of all that can be seen of the horn from the rear. It has about a 10" panel that can be removed from the top back there. I see on the other machines, the whole back panel comes off. This one has a smaller one below the iron horn connection that's been all nailed on. If I have to remove that for some reason, I'll put it back on with small screws. There are numbers stamped in the wood on the upper right hand corner on the back. IS that where Columbia put the serial numbers? There's not much to look at under the lid, that's for sure.

I guessing you either have a Motor of Quality by Heinemann, like my 720, or if your machine is really late, (1928), you could have a British Garrard motor, which are supposed to be very high quality.

Here's the link to that thing playing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKNJVGgNMNs

I'll pull the motor out of it tomorrow and take some pictures of it.

As an aside, they had a small stack of diamond disks for sale in the shop. The one on top was 52645 by B.A. Rolfe, and it along with a few other electric disks in there as well. I think Edison only released 5-6 records after that one so I was really happy about getting them of course. They were $2 each.

Interesting. It sounds quite different than my Brunswick Cortez. It doesn't sound anything like a Credenza either. I'll be interested to hear when you get the reproducer rebuilt. There is a little problem there that might be causing other problems. I've been told that Viva Tonals sound better from the side than they do straight on. Is that true?

Wow, what a marvel. I really like that asymmetric horn mouth, it's pretty unique. A machine I would definitely like to have in my house!

Indeed the "double-S" tonearm of the viva-tonal gramophones is peculiar, and I like its shape a lot. I happen to own a 160 viva-tonal "portable" (the "quotes" are because it's as portable as a boat anchor...) perhaps you might like to take a look at it, it's always nice to see how different models sharing the same technology compare with each other.

Should you really have to rehaul the soundbox, you might find this previous topic very useful:
http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewto ... =7&t=23084

Wow, what a beauty! I've got a Credenza and a Cortez, but I'd sure like to find of these someday so I'd have one example of each, even if I have no room.

Congrats!

Sean