The Talking Machine Forum — For All Antique Phonographs & Recordings

Dear all,

I found this machine in an auction, and I would like to get as many informations as possible about it (fake or not, age, etc) Although I collect several antique things, I know nothing about gramophones. I found nothing on the internet, that's why I'm asking your precious help.

Thanks a lot!

(PS: Sorry for any language mistakes I may have been made.)

Fake. An Indian assemblage. Not worth the basmati it's boiled in.
Yet you should study pictures of original phonographs. See the proportions, plus the way they're made. I'm afraid the only cure for crapophonitis is education. Look at as many original examples as you're able. The Internet is quite rich in those.

Just to give you a few pointers in case you are ever unfortunate to come across another of these heaps of junk.

Firstly, the winding crank is sticking up at an angle. No genuine old machines had this, it's because someone has broken up an old HMV 101 portable machine, which did have this angled crank (so you didn't scrape your knuckles when winding the motor). The motor, turntable, speed control and handbrake all came from the same portable. HMV portables are very plentiful in India, and they are being broken up when the cases fall apart, due to the humid climate. Next, look at the thin brass horn. Where it bends down to meet the arm, there is a sharp angle made of two thin brass pieces soldered together, and guaranteed to fall apart in a very short time. All early machines have a one-piece elbow in cast aluminium or brass. Other things to note are the cabinet, which has open apertures in the sides. Why? They serve no purpose. There were one or two original machines that had glass panels, but they are extremely rare. The soundbox (the round thing that hold the needle) is of a type made long after production of horned models. It has a cover on the front, which, with a very few exceptions, no horned model ever had. They were always open fronted, with a mica diaphragm, whereas this one is aluminium.

As mentioned above, do study and familiarise your self with genuine machines, you will be surprised how quickly you will learn to recognise the real thing. Any machine you see with that type of soundbox or brass horn should immediately ring alarm bells!

Hello everyone!

I have been lurking on the forum for over a year, absorbing all the relevant information, tips and tricks, but never felt like joining until now, so, hi all! Thank you very much for the immense amount of knowledge you are sharing with the world. I've learned a lot and can hopefully someday also contribute.

But back to the topic - yes, the item in question is definitely a modern reproduction/fake, also known as a crap-o-phone, but a surprisingly well made one, as far as I see from the available photos - let me explain.

As Colleagues Panatropia and Phono48 pointed out, it displays all the trademark features of Indian reproductions - the brass "flower" horn, the horn elbow that's made of two pieces of pipe butt soldered together; turntable, brake and mechanism from an HMV 101 or similar portable player, reproducer with a shield over the diaphragm (like typically seen on Soviet portables), elaborate octogonal housing and so on, it appears to lack one trademark feature - the misaligned reproducer in respect to the turntable. This is the reason why one should NEVER play a record on a crap-o-phone.

If the reproducer isn't correctly alligned with the turntable and one attempts to play a record this way, it will get ruined very quickly. More on correct reproducer allignment can be found on the forum or on linked pages.

The crap-o-phone makers seem to be making actual progress in their build quality it seems

Another thing to point out to newbees:

I realize that it was probably done for display purposes, but in the photos, the tonearm is positioned on the wrong side for playing a record. The tonearm should always be on the right side of the spindle--facing you--so the record groove is pulled away from the needle's tip--NOT traveling into the tip. I've seen countless YouTube videos showing the record being played with the tonearm positioned on the wrong side. (I've even seen this done on TV shows: notably, the "Miss Fisher Murder Mysteries" shown on PBS.)

Just one of my pet peeves....

OF

The REAL problem with these, is that they are sometimes passed off as authentic to unsuspecting buyers... IF you can't afford a real machine and just want a decoration, these would work for that, but only if they are priced as fake reproduction decorations...

i´m still looking for a crap-o-phone to make a youtube tutorial about the item but i'll be damned if i pay anything for it anyway i might blow it up or set it on fire at the end of the video just to please the crapo haters out there nothing is useful about them even the springs are crap in a lot of cases so no loss there!
what would you want me to do with a crap-o-phone at the end of a tutorial about how and why not to buy one? tino

The penultimate lot in the CLPGS Member's Auction last year comprised not one but two Crapophones. As the auctioneer pointed out, the vendor knew how to secure a sale by including a £5 note as part of the lot, which sold for £12. Probably worth that for spares before consigning the leftovers to a skip.

tinovanderzwan wrote:i´m still looking for a crap-o-phone to make a youtube tutorial about the item but i'll be damned if i pay anything for it anyway i might blow it up or set it on fire at the end of the video just to please the crapo haters out there nothing is useful about them even the springs are crap in a lot of cases so no loss there!
what would you want me to do with a crap-o-phone at the end of a tutorial about how and why not to buy one?

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tino

A video of a crapophone playing a much-detested record, and exploding or being consumed by fire whilst it does so, would be tremendously satisfying. I can't wait Tino!

Only the choice of record would be contentious...

"Only the choice of record would be contentious..."

Something by Henry Burr (there seem to be millions of his records)... or Hawaiian... both bountiful and no real loss...

Attach a can of hairspray or carburetor cleaner to the tonearm, light it at the horn opening and the Crap-O-Phone turns into a Flame-O-Phone... (Don't try this at home, only professional stuntmen should attempt this, make sure you are wearing safety glasses and a flameproof suit, only do this in a well ventilated area outside your home)